Charlemagne

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An 8:00 Nurburgring time is slow.
This is the hard truth. When 2021 BMW M4 as a direct competitor does 7:30 then 7:58 is slow. Although M4 was automatic but it was on stock tyres which should be 275/40 R18 and 285/35 R19.

On the other hand I think something is off with that time. I'd really like to know what time the Mach 1 HP with 10R80 would have. On the other hand, it doesn't matter to me at all, the car is plenty powerful and fast for me. Nowadays anything is slower than EV car anyway, that's not what this all is about for me.
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Dave2013M3

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This is the hard truth. When 2021 BMW M4 as a direct competitor does 7:30 then 7:58 is slow. Although M4 was automatic but it was on stock tyres which should be 275/40 R18 and 285/35 R19.

On the other hand I think something is off with that time. I'd really like to know what time the Mach 1 HP with 10R80 would have. On the other hand, it doesn't matter to me at all, the car is plenty powerful and fast for me. Nowadays anything is slower than EV car anyway, that's not what this all is about for me.

Once again there is no advantage on the Nurburgring with an auto or DCT. There is not a lot of shifting. On a short technical track you may see some advantage.

I saw a test done with 2 E92 M3s same driver, one a DCT the other a 6MT they were withing tenths to each other not seconds.

Keep in mind the M4 was on the Mich SC2s which is an option for the M4. Like the Mustang if you don't check the box for the SC2s you get a mix of tires. Either MIch PS4S, Pirelli PZ4.
 
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WD Pro

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You Sir are delusional. This is under the assumption that you were serious with what you wrote.
I got my answer to that when the lap time list was posted … :facepalm:

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Dave2013M3

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Here's a list of lap times +-4 seconds of the Mach 1, some pretty good company:
1637175317864.png

Funny a lot of the cars highlighted are almost 20 years ago. A new 911 Turbo runs it in 7:17. A new 991.2 Carrera S runs it in 7:25. The older non Turbo 991.1 2016 Carrera S runs it in 7:34 on regular Michelins.
 

2021 Mach 1

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Funny a lot of the cars highlighted are almost 20 years ago. A new 911 Turbo runs it in 7:17. A new 991.2 Carrera S runs it in 7:25. The older non Turbo 991.1 2016 Carrera S runs it in 7:34 on regular Michelins.
That's a good point, you're right.
 

Charlemagne

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Keep in mind the M4 was on the Mich SC2s which is an option for the M4. Like the Mustang if you don't check the box for the SC2s you get a mix of tires. Either MIch PS4S, Pirelli PZ4.
Ah, right, then the times are not comparable. Really would need proper US Mach 1 HP for the time to mean anything. Could easily be 10-15 seconds less.

As much as I hate Ford for not providing Handling Package here, I wouldn't want it anyway, the front splitter would be troublesome on the roads and I don't like the rear spoiler much. So I opted for the wider wheels and am already curious how they will feel :) Maybe I'll get to NĂĽrburgring oneday myself too but plan on local circuits first.
 

bnightstar

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so you expect a measurable/statistically useful difference between a 150lb driver and a 200lb driver?
I dropped from 230 to 200lb and messured like 0.3-0.4s difference on 2 km track. The ring is 20 km's so yeah I could say 50lb will be a huge difference in times.
 

bnightstar

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Ah, right, then the times are not comparable. Really would need proper US Mach 1 HP for the time to mean anything. Could easily be 10-15 seconds less.
I have a pro driver on speed dial who happens to win 24 hours of Nurburgring. And a EU Spec semi-track prepped GT I'm almost sure he would beat the 7:58 of that particular Mach 1. And will try to arrange to test that theory out next season.
 

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Who cares what it’s Ring lap time is? Did you buy it for that? How many Mustang owners will ever, EVER, drive like that on the road? How many of you will ever go at it 10 10ths in your own car on a race track?
All this ring crap is just pointless Willy waving.
I just sold my Elfin Clubman which was a great little car, only a 1600cc 4Age Toyota power plant, 3 times smaller that the 5L V8, but it would slaughter any Mustang and quite a few Euro high end exotics, on tight twisty roads, and I bought a Mustang. Am I unhappy that it does not handle like the Elfin? NO, it’s a different type of car, more Sporting than sports, more a comfortable but fast cruiser than a Ring miester. And when I fire up the Mustang V8 and immerse myself in that glorious understressed sound track, do I miss the Elfin’s banshee wail and Cannon like crackle on a trailing throttle into a hairpin, not really, it’s far outweighed by the fact I can now cover great distances, in comfort, with enough luggage space for two people, with all the power and speed I could ever need on the road.
It’s like all this BS 0-62 mph in 2.7 seconds crap, where and when are you going to actually do that, and when Audi and Mercedes make claims like that from family oriented station wagons it just makes me groan.
I have had faster cars than my Mustang, better handling cars than my Mustang, but neither of those factors are why I bought one.
It’s horses for courses, enjoy your Mustang for the glorious thing it is.
 

Dave2013M3

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Ah, right, then the times are not comparable. Really would need proper US Mach 1 HP for the time to mean anything. Could easily be 10-15 seconds less.

As much as I hate Ford for not providing Handling Package here, I wouldn't want it anyway, the front splitter would be troublesome on the roads and I don't like the rear spoiler much. So I opted for the wider wheels and am already curious how they will feel :) Maybe I'll get to NĂĽrburgring oneday myself too but plan on local circuits first.

Keep in mind its a Euro magazine, they probably can only get their hands on a Euro Mach1. I disagree that tires will shave 30 seconds off the time of the Mach 1. I do believe a US Mach 1 HP will be able to at least get into the 7:40s.
 

bnightstar

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Keep in mind its a Euro magazine, they probably can only get their hands on a Euro Mach1. I disagree that tires will shave 30 seconds off the time of the Mach 1. I do believe a US Mach 1 HP will be able to at least get into the 7:40s.
Tires alone shaked off 3 second on 2 km track in my GT and the Ring is 20 km I can see them shaking of 30 seconds to be fair. Steeda recently did such test with the Base Mach 1 here:

And the results from tires were similar 2 seconds. So yeah tires make huge difference on track which is why in the track section you will find tons of posts regarding what tires to use.
 

Dave2013M3

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Who cares what it’s Ring lap time is? Did you buy it for that? How many Mustang owners will ever, EVER, drive like that on the road? How many of you will ever go at it 10 10ths in your own car on a race track?
All this ring crap is just pointless Willy waving.
I just sold my Elfin Clubman which was a great little car, only a 1600cc 4Age Toyota power plant, 3 times smaller that the 5L V8, but it would slaughter any Mustang and quite a few Euro high end exotics, on tight twisty roads, and I bought a Mustang. Am I unhappy that it does not handle like the Elfin? NO, it’s a different type of car, more Sporting than sports, more a comfortable but fast cruiser than a Ring miester. And when I fire up the Mustang V8 and immerse myself in that glorious understressed sound track, do I miss the Elfin’s banshee wail and Cannon like crackle on a trailing throttle into a hairpin, not really, it’s far outweighed by the fact I can now cover great distances, in comfort, with enough luggage space for two people, with all the power and speed I could ever need on the road.
It’s like all this BS 0-62 mph in 2.7 seconds crap, where and when are you going to actually do that, and when Audi and Mercedes make claims like that from family oriented station wagons it just makes me groan.
I have had faster cars than my Mustang, better handling cars than my Mustang, but neither of those factors are why I bought one.
It’s horses for courses, enjoy your Mustang for the glorious thing it is.
Tires alone shaked off 3 second on 2 km track in my GT and the Ring is 20 km I can see them shaking of 30 seconds to be fair. Steeda recently did such test with the Base Mach 1 here:

And the results from tires were similar 2 seconds. So yeah tires make huge difference on track which is why in the track section you will find tons of posts regarding what tires to use.
The ring is a lot of straights too, long ones where you can really stretch your legs. I still feel 7:40 for HP car.
 

bnightstar

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The ring is a lot of straights too, long ones where you can really stretch your legs. I still feel 7:40 for HP car.
True I fallow a lot of races and such lap times there for example the newly announced Cayman GT4 RS just did 7:04. This lap time of an Euro Spec Mach 1 is important to me because I consider trading my GB GT for GB Mach 1 Eu Spec however based on the lap difference 8:08 vs 7:58 I don't see such a compelling reason to spend 30 000 euro more on a Mach 1 with that money I'm sure I can easy close that gap with better aero, tires, suspension and Oil coolers for my current car. So yeah this time is relevant for at least one owner/future buyer. And I regularly race against M3's M4's and most importantly M2 Competitions and the modern BMW's are much faster than the Mustang the M2 Competition is in another league though which is obvious by all the M2 CS's lap times that are faster than GT500.
 

Mazman

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Who cares what it’s Ring lap time is? Did you buy it for that? How many Mustang owners will ever, EVER, drive like that on the road? How many of you will ever go at it 10 10ths in your own car on a race track?
All this ring crap is just pointless Willy waving.
I just sold my Elfin Clubman which was a great little car, only a 1600cc 4Age Toyota power plant, 3 times smaller that the 5L V8, but it would slaughter any Mustang and quite a few Euro high end exotics, on tight twisty roads, and I bought a Mustang. Am I unhappy that it does not handle like the Elfin? NO, it’s a different type of car, more Sporting than sports, more a comfortable but fast cruiser than a Ring miester. And when I fire up the Mustang V8 and immerse myself in that glorious understressed sound track, do I miss the Elfin’s banshee wail and Cannon like crackle on a trailing throttle into a hairpin, not really, it’s far outweighed by the fact I can now cover great distances, in comfort, with enough luggage space for two people, with all the power and speed I could ever need on the road.
It’s like all this BS 0-62 mph in 2.7 seconds crap, where and when are you going to actually do that, and when Audi and Mercedes make claims like that from family oriented station wagons it just makes me groan.
I have had faster cars than my Mustang, better handling cars than my Mustang, but neither of those factors are why I bought one.
It’s horses for courses, enjoy your Mustang for the glorious thing it is.
The only reason I would by a M1 over a regular GT is in fact of its track capabilities. Also a car that is fast and compliant on the ring will many times behave the same on a regular road hence why testing there is important for manufacturers. With that said from what I have seen M1 and GT PP1 on track with same tires(ps4s) seem to be on par. So the next question that comes into mind how much do the stiffer sways/springs/mangeride tune on the M1 matter when stepping up to let's say a 305/315(cup2 ) setup on both cars. On the M1 one is not getting full use of the stiffer/re-mapped stuff with the PS4S tires but the question is how much difference does it make.
Again with that said getting a GT PP1 and with the FP handling pack with stiffer springs, sways and Magneride re-map(which is a 1000USD package) would there be any difference at all in lap time with the same tire on both cars! I think not(or very little), but then we come into things like the Tremec and the added coolers!

I do full acceleration runs whenever I can and wherever I can on a daily basis. So the fact that number do not matter I don't agree on not for my use case. So for me how it behaves on track is of importance even though I will not be able to reach it's full capacitity. But if the car is more compliant and more easy to handle then yes even a average joe will benefit from that. I got my MX5 so I could "learn how to drive" but I would need to have back seats and there are not many cars that offer that tickle and being able to track that do not cost to much hence why at least I am considering of getting a M1.

Of course at the end it boils down to personal preference and use case. Numbers are not everything but it gives some guidance.
 
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Maldelver

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Who cares what it’s Ring lap time is? Did you buy it for that? How many Mustang owners will ever, EVER, drive like that on the road? How many of you will ever go at it 10 10ths in your own car on a race track?
All this ring crap is just pointless Willy waving.
I just sold my Elfin Clubman which was a great little car, only a 1600cc 4Age Toyota power plant, 3 times smaller that the 5L V8, but it would slaughter any Mustang and quite a few Euro high end exotics, on tight twisty roads, and I bought a Mustang. Am I unhappy that it does not handle like the Elfin? NO, it’s a different type of car, more Sporting than sports, more a comfortable but fast cruiser than a Ring miester. And when I fire up the Mustang V8 and immerse myself in that glorious understressed sound track, do I miss the Elfin’s banshee wail and Cannon like crackle on a trailing throttle into a hairpin, not really, it’s far outweighed by the fact I can now cover great distances, in comfort, with enough luggage space for two people, with all the power and speed I could ever need on the road.
It’s like all this BS 0-62 mph in 2.7 seconds crap, where and when are you going to actually do that, and when Audi and Mercedes make claims like that from family oriented station wagons it just makes me groan.
I have had faster cars than my Mustang, better handling cars than my Mustang, but neither of those factors are why I bought one.
It’s horses for courses, enjoy your Mustang for the glorious thing it is.
I don’t disagree with the spirit of what you are saying...

However the track capability of the MACH 1, coupled with a factory warranty, equals value. Now most owners may never capitalize on that value, but it’s there, and it’s important, because we paid for it.

Should we chose, or be forced, to liquidate the car, we expect to be compensated for that value.

I am not saying this vehicle is an investment, but there is value in it regardless whether it’s capitalized on by the original owner, or future owners.
 
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