2021 Mach 1 Results @ Car and Driver Lightning Lap 2022

[RandomTask]

Do we know what the actual differences are between the springs?

Stiffer spring rate, and although I didn’t measure them they appear to be slightly shorter by 1/2” maybe.

On track pushing hard I noticed significantly less body roll and more precise handling. The solid rear sway bar really tightened up the back of the car, it is much heavier than the non HP bar.

I will be out at the Mach 1 track attack end of March, so that will be a good opportunity to test how their HP car handles and see if I notice any differences.

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[Mach 1 HP]

I love the 350R and I still want one. But for daily driver I prefer my M1 HP. The lap time proves it's a special car

 

[Mikepol2]

Do we know what the actual differences are between the springs?

Spring rates for the base Mach are 194/657 front and rear.
HP mach is 211/742

I put this chart together from researching multiple posts here and other sources....

	PP1 w/o MR	Mach 1	Mach 1 HP	GT350 (2016-2018)	GT350 (2019+)	GT350R
Front springs	165 lb	194 lb	211 lb	194 lb	211 lb	240 lb
Rear springs	728 lb	657 lb	742 lb	914 lb	857 lb	914 lb
Front sway	32.0mm solid	33.3 x 5.0mm wall	33.3 x 5.0mm wall		34 x 5.7mm wall	34 x 4.8mm wall
Rear sway	22.2mm solid	24 x 3.6mm wall	24mm solid		24 x 3.6mm wall	24 x 3.6mm wall

 

[Mazman]

Spring rates for the base Mach are 194/657 front and rear.
HP mach is 211/742

Stiffer spring rate, and although I didn’t measure them they appear to be slightly shorter by 1/2” maybe.

On track pushing hard I noticed significantly less body roll and more precise handling. The solid rear sway bar really tightened up the back of the car, it is much heavier than the non HP bar.

I will be out at the Mach 1 track attack end of March, so that will be a good opportunity to test how their HP car handles and see if I notice any differences.

I put this chart together from researching multiple posts here and other sources....

	PP1 w/o MR	Mach 1	Mach 1 HP	GT350 (2016-2018)	GT350 (2019+)	GT350R
Front springs	165 lb	194 lb	211 lb	194 lb	211 lb	240 lb
Rear springs	728 lb	657 lb	742 lb	914 lb	857 lb	914 lb
Front sway	32.0mm solid	33.3 x 5.0mm wall	33.3 x 5.0mm wall		34 x 5.7mm wall	34 x 4.8mm wall
Rear sway	22.2mm solid	24 x 3.6mm wall	24mm solid		24 x 3.6mm wall	24 x 3.6mm wall

Thanks!
I guess going to the Steeda dual rates would be the way to go if opting to change if the car sees many track days.

The HP ones seem to be similar to the M-5300-W springs in some parts of the range. Those were in my opinion to soft in the rear, however that was with stock PP1 swaybars and Magneride

 

[WD Pro]

I put this chart together from researching multiple posts here and other sources....

	PP1 w/o MR	Mach 1	Mach 1 HP	GT350 (2016-2018)	GT350 (2019+)	GT350R
Front springs	165 lb	194 lb	211 lb	194 lb	211 lb	240 lb
Rear springs	728 lb	657 lb	742 lb	914 lb	857 lb	914 lb
Front sway	32.0mm solid	33.3 x 5.0mm wall	33.3 x 5.0mm wall		34 x 5.7mm wall	34 x 4.8mm wall
Rear sway	22.2mm solid	24 x 3.6mm wall	24mm solid		24 x 3.6mm wall	24 x 3.6mm wall

This is great info

I've shamelessly stolen it and added it to other info of interest :

From my selfish perspective though, I'm most interested in the entries that are missing (bold red question marks) i.e. what I have now and what I want to add to the car lol

WD

 

[bnightstar]

This is great info
From my selfish perspective though, I'm most interested in the entries that are missing (bold red question marks) i.e. what I have now and what I want to add to the car lol

WD

From what I have read I really think the Eibach Pro-Kit is the best in terms of rates drop for that car if not MR car. For MR cars is obviously that the FP Magneride kit is the best value for money.

 

[19gtaz]

This is great info

I've shamelessly stolen it and added it to other info of interest :

From my selfish perspective though, I'm most interested in the entries that are missing (bold red question marks) i.e. what I have now and what I want to add to the car lol

WD

Someone (sorry I can't give them credit) posted the PP1 GT with Magneride and I wrote it down because my car is a PP1. It was 150 front, 650 rear.
Also a GT was listed as 160 front and 668 rear.

 

[Mikepol2]

Today I did a quick search of stock dyno numbers for a Tremec Mach 1 and a 2020 GT350 and found results of 458 hp / 409 lb-ft for the Mach 1 and 469 / 402 for the GT350. Yes, I know, all dynos are different. Just throwing out there that the published vs actual numbers may not be as different as we think. Could help explain how the two could have been so close at Lightning Lap.

 

[UpACurb]

Ill just say this- been in the automotive aftermarket for 20+ years
Had the chance to talk to many many engineers about dyno results exc- not the mention our own engineers at the companies I work for (think major companies in the aftermarket and some OE)

This is what I learned- you could make the dyno for a stock vehicle differ by as much as 20rwhp depending on time that you ran it/ type of air exc.... have also had the chance to meet many many famous/ professional drivers - and track temperatures- surface condition- humidity outside - tons of different factors (I hear one rumor that they repaved VIR between the two runs - no idea if true or not but would also have an effect)

You simply cant compare to track runs more than 4 years apart- you also cant compare dyno numbers run on different dynos or during different time periods

Based on this- I have no idea if a Mach 1 or a GT350R is faster around a track as I have never seen the 2 run together at the same time with the same driver (although it does make fun click bait articles)

Maybe we need a GT350/ Mach 1 track day showdown?? : )

 

[Hack]

But you can buy an Non-HP car and convert it to HP car sure it will take some time but HP cars are not magic they are more aero, camber plates, springs and wheels+tires. For the wheels and tires you have better options with Apex (lighter) for springs you have tons of options for camber plates as well and even for aero there are better options but it's easy to source from Ford Performance anyway.

The more difficult things to change would be the abs tuning and the advance trac.

 

[bnightstar]

The more difficult things to change would be the abs tuning and the advance trac.

which until someone prove somehow that is true I call marketing bullshit.

 

[Atlas1]

Ill just say this- been in the automotive aftermarket for 20+ years
Had the chance to talk to many many engineers about dyno results exc- not the mention our own engineers at the companies I work for (think major companies in the aftermarket and some OE)

This is what I learned- you could make the dyno for a stock vehicle differ by as much as 20rwhp depending on time that you ran it/ type of air exc.... have also had the chance to meet many many famous/ professional drivers - and track temperatures- surface condition- humidity outside - tons of different factors (I hear one rumor that they repaved VIR between the two runs - no idea if true or not but would also have an effect)

You simply cant compare to track runs more than 4 years apart- you also cant compare dyno numbers run on different dynos or during different time periods

Based on this- I have no idea if a Mach 1 or a GT350R is faster around a track as I have never seen the 2 run together at the same time with the same driver (although it does make fun click bait articles)

Maybe we need a GT350/ Mach 1 track day showdown?? : )

I want to see both run back to back by the same driver mainly because I want to hear more comparisons of their similarities and differences in feel on track.

 

[Hack]

which until someone prove somehow that is true I call marketing bullshit.

You haven't owned multiple models of Mustangs, have you? PP1 is different from base and both are different from GT350. It's plain and obvious if you live with the cars and drive them regularly. There's no way Ford didn't tune the HP Mach different from the standard version of the Mach. It's just how Ford does it, and it makes sense. People buying certain cars want a different driving experience.

When I owned a base GT the advancetrac was so intrusive that I ended up turning it off every time I got in the car. My PP1 is fine for street driving. Not intrusive at all. When I took the GT350 to the track I didn't have to turn off advancetrac even on the road course. I'm talking about very major differences, not subtle at all.

Same thing is true of ABS. Ideally it's matched up to the stock hardware (brakes, wheels, tires, etc.). And I know that Ford says they do that. Based on the advancetrac differences I believe it.

 

[bnightstar]

You haven't owned multiple models of Mustangs, have you? PP1 is different from base and both are different from GT350. It's plain and obvious if you live with the cars and drive them regularly. There's no way Ford didn't tune the HP Mach different from the standard version of the Mach. It's just how Ford does it, and it makes sense. People buying certain cars want a different driving experience.

When I owned a base GT the advancetrac was so intrusive that I ended up turning it off every time I got in the car. My PP1 is fine for street driving. Not intrusive at all. When I took the GT350 to the track I didn't have to turn off advancetrac even on the road course. I'm talking about very major differences, not subtle at all.

Same thing is true of ABS. Ideally it's matched up to the stock hardware (brakes, wheels, tires, etc.). And I know that Ford says they do that. Based on the advancetrac differences I believe it.

I have driven a Mach 1 and my PP1 and I don't think there is big difference in fact the Service manager also driven both my car and Mach 1 and says that he can't spot the difference ether. And that because my car is on better tires and brake pads it seamed faster to him. Also mine is not understeering as much as a base Mach 1. So sure there might be difference in ABS (which is a moot point since anyone going to track will swap at least brake pads to something more capable and then ABS is out of the picture) and Advancetrac (again moot point since anyone decent will turn that off as you pointed out anyway). And I have seen pro drivers doing nasty spins because of the advancetrac interfering with my car even though was supposed to be turned off. Which as I said for me for road course / autocross this two matter only when car is 100% stock and it will not be 100% if it is on the road course.

 

[Hack]

I have driven a Mach 1 and my PP1 and I don't think there is big difference in fact the Service manager also driven both my car and Mach 1 and says that he can't spot the difference ether. And that because my car is on better tires and brake pads it seamed faster to him. Also mine is not understeering as much as a base Mach 1. So sure there might be difference in ABS (which is a moot point since anyone going to track will swap at least brake pads to something more capable and then ABS is out of the picture) and Advancetrac (again moot point since anyone decent will turn that off as you pointed out anyway). And I have seen pro drivers doing nasty spins because of the advancetrac interfering with my car even though was supposed to be turned off. Which as I said for me for road course / autocross this two matter only when car is 100% stock and it will not be 100% if it is on the road course.

I'm sure I wouldn't notice the difference in a brief drive. You have to at least push the car a little to discover when the nannies kick in. Probably my current PP1 I know the least about; I only have a couple thousand miles on that car since I bought it last year and I haven't had it to the road course yet. But there's a corner on my daily drive that would always engage the nannies in my 2015, and it doesn't do that in the 2017. So there's definitely a significant difference in the advancetrac settings.

I disagree with what you said about ABS being out the window.

And no way does anyone get in a spin from advancetrac. That's just silly. The worst thing that will happen is wearing out the brakes from the advancetrac preventing the car from sliding.

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