BombZombie

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Good words of advice here
Coming from the Subaru WRX/STI community, owner/dealership discussion "how-to" guides when something breaks are abundant and detailed.





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JPC

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so you can PAY a premium for a track car, but Ford won't warranty it for ANY track use...FAIL!!!
 

Martin Schacht

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When it comes to alot of these forum documented situations, I'm always wondering what was said to a dealer/service manager by the owner, or how the situation was approached. Being accused of "racing" warrants some information that was disclosed by owner. I'm also guessing that having a track shop do some work, "fix it", and then (from what the post suggests) continue to track the car, might have worked against the owners claims. I know the owner simply wanted a small reimbursement of his expenses for labor and fluids, but I understand a dealership not being willing to cover that (all solely based on what info the post provided).

My opinion - follow the inspection/maintenance guide, document it, and don't talk about any details of the event if something happens - let the evidence speak for itself.
If you have bolt on tow hooks, competition numbers or any other obvious track accessories, windshield banners, remove them before going to a dealer. Have the car detailed to get any track rubber streaks removed, arrive on street wheels with stock tires. Get that helmet out of the front seat :)
 

racingandfishing

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When it comes to alot of these forum documented situations, I'm always wondering what was said to a dealer/service manager by the owner, or how the situation was approached. Being accused of "racing" warrants some information that was disclosed by owner. I'm also guessing that having a track shop do some work, "fix it", and then (from what the post suggests) continue to track the car, might have worked against the owners claims. I know the owner simply wanted a small reimbursement of his expenses for labor and fluids, but I understand a dealership not being willing to cover that (all solely based on what info the post provided).

My opinion - follow the inspection/maintenance guide, document it, and don't talk about any details of the event if something happens - let the evidence speak for itself.
If you have bolt on tow hooks, competition numbers or any other obvious track accessories, windshield banners, remove them before going to a dealer. Have the car detailed to get any track rubber streaks removed, arrive on street wheels with stock tires. Get that helmet out of the front seat :)
Racing is not the only reason they can deny the claim. Any "track" or "other event" even if it is not a competition and not timed, can be grounds for denying a claim.

Either way, these cars will have the Ford Pass equipment which reports to Ford even if you don't sign up. That will make it easy for them to tell where the car has been and how it was used. Apparently the only way to turn off all of the snitches is to pull the modem out of the trunk so it can't communicate.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/the-how-to-disable-the-data-link-to-ford-thread.146863/
 

BombZombie

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Racing is not the only reason they can deny the claim. Any "track" or "other event" even if it is not a competition and not timed, can be grounds for denying a claim.

Either way, these cars will have the Ford Pass equipment which reports to Ford even if you don't sign up. That will make it easy for them to tell where the car has been and how it was used. Apparently the only way to turn off all of the snitches is to pull the modem out of the trunk so it can't communicate.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/the-how-to-disable-the-data-link-to-ford-thread.146863/
We can go into the minutiae of everything that would cause a warranty claim denial, but it won't get us anywhere and we'd eventually exist in an echo chamber.

Follow the guidelines Ford describes, go down the checklist and sign and date every step performed, save receipts, get explicit indication that the event your participating in is for fun and non-competitive, perform during and post-event maintenance checks, document everything, and keep your car clean and shiny - that's the best way to fight Ford if they choose to deny a claim. Oh yeah, and always be polite and even tempered.

Bottom line, you very well might have to fight if the damage is severe enough. The above steps will help you stand a good chance, but be prepared to pony up (no pun intended) if you want to go David vs Goliath to get a repair done. You want to protect your vehicle/investment, and Ford will do the same, protecting themselves, to ensure you weren't abusing it beyond the design perimeters.

Or, don't do any of the above and just enjoy the car and occasional track outing. You'll likely be fine.
 

Charlemagne

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Surely there's no way they could have free access to the car's location. Everyone else would need a court order for that first.
 

shogun32

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but actually listing what to do when you drag race or track the car is something I've not seen before.
it was in the 2019 manual.

Majority of us will be just fine.
I don't see how. Describing how to use the track features does NOT IN ANY WAY imply warranty coverage while doing said activities. That they keep inserting "track use" as an exclusion would suggest any track use during 5/60 is cause for denial. Your auto insurance likewise will likely reject any claims made while engaging in 'timed' events which puts the bullseye on Autocross.

Now if you lunch a valve during sustained high RPM use, you might get away with the "I like listening to my engine and was in 2nd gear going down a lonely road when it let go" but I wouldn't put too much faith in it.
 
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racingandfishing

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Surely there's no way they could have free access to the car's location. Everyone else would need a court order for that first.
They can and do.

https://owner.ford.com/fordpass/fordpass-privacy-policy.html

Information we collect through FordPass includes:
  • Precise location information is collected from your mobile device and/or vehicle in connection with location-based functions of FordPass. This information includes Global Positioning System (GPS) data and location derived from IP address. This information can be used to determine your device or vehicle’s current location, travel direction, and speed. If you have enabled location services on your device, this data may be collected when the app is running in the foreground or background. We may also derive your approximate location from other device data such as Wi-Fi access points, cell towers, and your IP address, whether location services are on or turned off, through the permission system used by your mobile operating system.
  • Vehicle Information, such as the VIN, ID of key in use, hardware model and part numbers, status of vehicle systems (e.g., warning lights, fluid levels, fuel consumption, distance to empty, battery charge status, tire pressure, locks, doors, fuel shut-off, and air bags), vehicle diagnostics, odometer, and other information about how the vehicle is performing.
  • Driving Characteristics, such as speed, use of accelerator, brakes, steering, seat belts, and other similar information about how the vehicle is used.

And it goes on to say:
  • FordPass may also use tracking technologies that collect information about how FordPass is used and how it is performing including if it crashes, and which may be able to be connected across devices and over time...... Some of these technologies can be limited or deactivated through your browser or device settings, but some cannot. FordPass does not respond to “Do-Not-Track” requests.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/4g-modem-disabling-instructions.146860/#post-3004231

From this thread:

"Thank you for this! I have been curious to do the same on my 2020 F350 PSD. I recently had an interesting experience where the dealer service manager was able to tell me a few accurate things about my truck when it was in my possession not on the dealer property... He told me he got the info on his computer from the Ford system tied to the Ford Connect infrastructure in the cloud.. I immediately disabled all the Ford Connect and Wifi options in settings but I want to make it impossible for my truck to phone home."

Apparently the only real way to stop your car from reporting on you is to remove the modem and telematics equipment.
 

Charlemagne

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Sure, ofc it collects this, what I meant is that such data are unusable to the dealer to dispute any warranty claims. Surely you have privacy laws in USA too? It may be in their cloud but the dealer should have no access to it.
 

racingandfishing

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Sure, ofc it collects this, what I meant is that such data are unusable to the dealer to dispute any warranty claims. Surely you have privacy laws in USA too? It may be in their cloud but the dealer should have no access to it.
See the last part of the post. The dealer knew information about the vehicle while it was not in their possession by accessing the information in the cloud. Ford also sells the information to insurance companies and other businesses. California is currently the only state with very rigid laws around selling personal information if you opt out.
 

BombZombie

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it was in the 2019 manual.


I don't see how. Describing how to use the track features does NOT IN ANY WAY imply warranty coverage while doing said activities. That they keep inserting "track use" as an exclusion would suggest any track use before 5/60 is up is cause for denial. Your auto insurance likewise will likely reject any claims made while engaging in 'timed' events which puts the bullseye on Autocross.

Now if you lunch a valve during sustained high RPM use, you might get away with the "I like listening to my engine and was in 2nd gear going down a lonely road when it let go" but I wouldn't put too much faith in it.
Keep in mind that "track use" can be a broad stroke to cover many legitimate warranty claim denials. It's purely part of Ford's legal team verbiage to protect company pockets and the image of their product. It doesn't just apply to the engine or power train. It also covers things like tires, wheels, brakes, shafts, etc. Even if you follow the maintance guidelines as described by Ford, but decide to Rev the absolute shit out of the engine, constantly bouncing it off the Rev limiter, and dump the clutch every chance you get, while participating in a non-competitive "track" event, Ford can use the "abuse" and "track" clause in their warranty verbiage to deny your claim....this same situation could apply in a parking lot or stoplight to stoplight. They track the stats via ECU, nothing we can really do about it.

Ford wants a way to deny claims from people who legitimately abuse their car, even if they claim "it wasn't at a competitive or timed event though!".

If we're really worried about whether Ford will cover a legitimate warranty claim due to an actual manufacturer error because we were operating it within its limits, then I would suggest selling the car and tracking a Toyota Camry. I hear those are pretty solid vehicles.
 

racingandfishing

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BombZombie you have a lot of faith...! All I can say is I had a warranty claim on a $35 side marker that warped denied because they said I took it through a car wash and those roller washers bent it. Car has never been through a car wash and there was zero proof, but that was their final answer....No big deal, I just bought one and replaced it. Though we know how Ford has made thousands of people (including myself) pay out of pocket for the admittedly defective AC evaporator and won't recall it because it "not a safety issue". Though somehow leaking refrigerant into the passenger compartment for us to breathe it is somehow not a safety issue...Lastly there are performance cars that are warrantied on the track. I just wish Ford would back up their track ready cars with a track use warranty and for us to not have to "hope" they will cover it even if there is zero evidence it was used that way.

These guys have $75-100K Mustangs and not even sure Ford will cover them. That really bites.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/no-2020-gt500-warranty-for-track-use.150446/
 

shogun32

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I just wish Ford would back up their track ready cars with a track use warranty
they sure charge enough to cover the eventuality you'd think. Or they could adopt a 20 or 30% co-pay model. Marketing/Sales is 100% about lying to you so you'll buy. They could give a rip about post-sales obligations. The accountants/lawyers will make sure you don't get a brass farthing unless you can prove your case.
 

BombZombie

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My mom listened to George Michaels alot when I was a kid, so maybe "Gotta have faith" is a subconscious default...or defect. Not quite sure yet.

I feel for consumers that have legitimate claims and get denied for no reason (like what you stated above). It sucks, and it's unfair. My dad is a litigator and I work in investigations and see many court proceedings. The people that always have the best chance have proof and documentation. Do they lose sometimes? They sure do, but if you don't try to validate your claims, you only have yourself to blame when a manufacturer at least provides some sort of guidelines.

I also feel for Ford when people legitimately abuse a car and then expect it to be repaired. Ultimately, it leads to two outcomes - Ford stops making the vehicle, or they jack the price up to limit the chance of claims (either through more expensive "durable" parts, or exclusivity, meaning less people buy them).

Paying more for an actual "Track" warranty would be nice, and good middle ground in my opinion. At least it's more of an easier "pay to play" pill to swallow.

Out of curiosity, what vehicles are you referring to that are track warrantied? I honestly don't know, and I'm interested to see how they stack up part/price wise with the Mach 1.
 
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