2021 GT500: Manual Trans Option?

Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Posts
7,666
Reaction score
3,473
Location
On a corner barstool not too far from I-95
First Name
Norm
Vehicle(s)
'08 GT #85, '19 WRX
I don't think its as simple as saying a DCT changes gears automatically, and therefore is an automatic.
Why not?

A conventional fully manual transmission can't change its own gears at all under any circumstances. Not whether it's synchronized, non-synchronized, planetary geared (think Lenco here), or of a preselector design (a 1930-ish arrangement where you selected the next gear with the gearshift lever but the actual gear change didn't happen until you worked the "gear change pedal"). The easy conclusion - the only one, actually - is that everything else is an automatic of some sort.


Norm





Advertisement

 

Tomster

Beware of idiots
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Posts
11,494
Reaction score
9,951
Location
FL
First Name
Tom
Vehicle(s)
'20 RR GT500R(CFTP), 18 OW GT350R Base, '17 AG GT350R Electronics Pack, '97 PG Cobra Convertible
What about when you're slowing to a full stop? Does it automatically select 1st for you in manual mode? I'm sure it does when you're using 'Drive' mode.


Tremec does mention that the DCT has more in common with a manual transmission, but even they carefully stop short of calling it a manual transmission. The big thing they don't say is that their DCT can automatically select gears, at least when using 'Drive'.


Norm
They never did call it a manual, but did distinctly differentiate it from an automatic. The automatic operates utilizing a torque converter and planetary gear sets as opposed to a DCT which utilizes clutches, synchronizers, and shift forks. I believe Tremec said that in comparison, the DCT more closely resembles a manual than an automatic.

As for will the trans downshift in manual mode? Yes it will, it has protections built in, just like if you forget to shift, the PCM will cutoff fuel to keep you from over revving the engine and transmission.

I have to step away for a bit, I will catch you guys later.

Nice chatting with you all.
 

Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Posts
7,666
Reaction score
3,473
Location
On a corner barstool not too far from I-95
First Name
Norm
Vehicle(s)
'08 GT #85, '19 WRX
They never did call it a manual, but did distinctly differentiate it from an automatic. The automatic operates utilizing a torque converter and planetary gear sets as opposed to a DCT which utilizes clutches, synchronizers, and shift forks. I believe Tremec said that in comparison, the DCT more closely resembles a manual than an automatic.
Mechanical resemblance. I'm not disputing that at all. Never have. I'm sure that Tremec was very careful in how their description was put together, focusing primarily on the mechanical similarities and differences rather than operational similarities.

But mechanical resemblance is not a defining characteristic of automation, which absolutely does mean that the machine can make some of its own decisions independent of the human who is at least nominally "in charge".


As for will the trans downshift in manual mode? Yes it will
Absolutely some automation going on there, even for part of it's Manual Mode operation.

I get why they had to do it that way.


Norm
 
Last edited:

Classic Lover

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Posts
556
Reaction score
508
Location
IL
Vehicle(s)
2006 Ford F250 Super Duty SOLD
They never did call it a manual, but did distinctly differentiate it from an automatic. The automatic operates utilizing a torque converter and planetary gear sets as opposed to a DCT which utilizes clutches, synchronizers, and shift forks. I believe Tremec said that in comparison, the DCT more closely resembles a manual than an automatic.

As for will the trans downshift in manual mode? Yes it will, it has protections built in, just like if you forget to shift, the PCM will cutoff fuel to keep you from over revving the engine and transmission.

I have to step away for a bit, I will catch you guys later.

Nice chatting with you all.
It doesn’t matter what is in the transmission, what matters is how it’s shifted. By no definition is the GT500 dct a manual, manual literally means done with the hands. The GT500s transmission is built like a manual except for the one thing that would make it a manual, the ability to manually shift it aka using you body to change gears, pushing a paddle that triggers a computer is not a manual shift. You get in the car put it in drive and the computer shifts the car from there on in, that’s an auto. That being said the dct is a much rarer design that a standard auto and I understand why GT500 owners would not like people just saying oh it’s just an auto.

All dcts are autos but very few autos are dcts.
 

kilobravo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Posts
5,987
Reaction score
4,214
Location
Corpus Christi Texas
Website
www.kilobravo.com
First Name
KB
Vehicle(s)
'16 CT6, '18 SD, '20 GT 500
Vehicle Showcase
1
Norm: I'm not sure what your beef is or why you are so hell-bent on making your point. It is an electric manual in the simplest terms and can either be driven in "auto" (to make you happy) or Manual mode where no automatic shifts occur, it's all driver-selected.

But frankly, they could call it a Proton Phaser Transmission and I wouldn't care as it's the friggin' coolest gearbox I've ever experienced. Maybe you should see if you can find someone to let you drive theirs so you can see?
 

Coosawjack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Posts
295
Reaction score
174
Location
Beaufort, SC
First Name
Jack
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang GT Premium Convertible
I don't see the humor. What's so funny? Isn't the forum here to discuss technology?
JUST LIKE ANYTHING ELSE Tom......IT'S WHAT YOU "RICH BOYS" can buy to make SUPERMEN out of ya.....then bash us that ain't quite got it....that's all!!

I'm sure you're a MUCH BETTER driver than I am and have a MUCH BETTER car than mine.....I just think it HUMOROUS you have to tell everyone!!
 

Tomster

Beware of idiots
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Posts
11,494
Reaction score
9,951
Location
FL
First Name
Tom
Vehicle(s)
'20 RR GT500R(CFTP), 18 OW GT350R Base, '17 AG GT350R Electronics Pack, '97 PG Cobra Convertible
JUST LIKE ANYTHING ELSE Tom......IT'S WHAT YOU "RICH BOYS" can buy to make SUPERMEN out of ya.....then bash us that ain't quite got it....that's all!!

I'm sure you're a MUCH BETTER driver than I am and have a MUCH BETTER car than mine.....I just think it HUMOROUS you have to tell everyone!!
Surely you are mistaken. Is this where civility goes out the window?

Sleep it off and get back to me.
 

dpAtlanta

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Posts
1,013
Reaction score
1,549
Location
Atlanta, GA
First Name
Dave
Vehicle(s)
2019 GT350 (#K2503), 2017 Cayman
It is an electric manual in the simplest terms and can either be driven in "auto" (to make you happy) or Manual mode where no automatic shifts occur, it's all driver-selected.
Driving my PDK (aka DCT) at it's upper limits in manual is nothing like driving an true automatic GT... you don't just modulate two pedals. It takes practice and concentration to get the most out of the vehicle in the curves... it's no video game.
I prefer the Shelby for the pleasure of shifting, but the DCT gives you the best of both worlds.

It seems like we have evolved to 3 different trans types:
1. Manual (Clutch & Pressure Plate/Throw out Bearing)
2. Automatic (Torque Converter)
3. Dual Clutch (No Torque Converter)

Technology has changed... maybe the idea of only TWO types of trannies needs to be revisited?




Last Sentence Disclaimer
Do NOT Google "Trannies" and equate that to ANYTHING that I have been discussing as it relates to vehicle discussion.
 

luc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Posts
306
Reaction score
244
Location
CA
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT with PP
No denying that there is a lot of snobbism that goes with expensive cars....
it’s one of the reasons that I love racing and/or open tracking... it’s the ultimate equalizer....
Every race/sessions you can see some low value cars ( Miata, etc), being faster than some very high value cars,,.
Driving skills do make a big difference
As for the drivers of those high value cars, about half are just car lovers and do not get their ego bruised because a 1978
Rabbit just passed them in T9 at Laguna, but the other half..... let say that it can be hilarious sometimes
 

Classic Lover

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Posts
556
Reaction score
508
Location
IL
Vehicle(s)
2006 Ford F250 Super Duty SOLD
Norm: I'm not sure what your beef is or why you are so hell-bent on making your point. It is an electric manual in the simplest terms and can either be driven in "auto" (to make you happy) or Manual mode where no automatic shifts occur, it's all driver-selected.

But frankly, they could call it a Proton Phaser Transmission and I wouldn't care as it's the friggin' coolest gearbox I've ever experienced. Maybe you should see if you can find someone to let you drive theirs so you can see?
No offense at all but I find the term electric manual very funny. Put simply it’s either done by the driver or it’s done by computer. Most modern automatic transmissions have a manual mode they are not manual transmissions.
 

Tomster

Beware of idiots
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Posts
11,494
Reaction score
9,951
Location
FL
First Name
Tom
Vehicle(s)
'20 RR GT500R(CFTP), 18 OW GT350R Base, '17 AG GT350R Electronics Pack, '97 PG Cobra Convertible
No offense at all but I find the term electric manual very funny. Put simply it’s either done by the driver or it’s done by computer. Most modern automatic transmissions have a manual mode they are not manual transmissions.
It is what it is. The DCT is not an automatic. The manufacturer went out of its way to distinguish that.

Are you smarter than the folks at Tremec?
 

Classic Lover

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Posts
556
Reaction score
508
Location
IL
Vehicle(s)
2006 Ford F250 Super Duty SOLD
It is what it is. The DCT is not an automatic. The manufacturer went out of its way to distinguish that.

Are you smarter than the folks at Tremec?
I doubt that I am, however you are not arguing with me you’re arguing with the definitions of words that I had nothing to do with. The term automatic and the term manual are what they are no matter what tremec or anybody else says. We should probably agree to disagree on this, you have the car and I don’t. I don’t see anything else to be gained by argument.
 

luc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Posts
306
Reaction score
244
Location
CA
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT with PP
It is what it is. The DCT is not an automatic. The manufacturer went out of its way to distinguish that.

Are you smarter than the folks at Tremec?
Maybe because there is a stigma attached to the word automatic ?
Real man don’t drive automatic...just kidding
Seriously this argument about if a car that can shift by itself is an automatic or not is really silly and remind me of Clinton arguing the meaning of “is”
For sure it’s not a manual and therefore if it’s not a manual what it is ????????
 
Last edited:

Advertisement





 
125 - Nemesis UK - 1


Advertisement
Top