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2020 Shelby GT500 Mustang leaked specs: 720HP @ 7500 RPM, 650 ft-lbs @ 4500 RPM, 4225lbs curb weight

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Benjj

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Said like someone who knows little about competitive benchmarking.
Please explain what I’m missing. This is fords halo car. It should be looking to set the bar, not aiming at vehicles several years into their production cycle.

Take the z28 and 350r for example. Ford saw what Chevy did with the z28. Ford was able to fire back a year later with the 350r that not only outperformed the z28, but at a cheaper price tag as well. Are we going to pretend ford engineers weren’t benchmarking the 350r against the z28? Would the 350r still have been a success if it came out 3-4 years after the z28? That’s the timeframe we’re approaching

I think ford got caught with their pants down with the zl1/1le, hellcats, and demons coming out and performing the way they have. If ford had an answer for these cars it would have been out by now.
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BmacIL

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Please explain what I’m missing. This is fords halo car. It should be looking to set the bar, not aiming at vehicles several years into their production cycle.

Take the z28 and 350r for example. Ford saw what Chevy did with the z28. Ford was able to fire back a year later with the 350r that not only outperformed the z28, but at a cheaper price tag as well. Are we going to pretend ford engineers weren’t benchmarking the 350r against the z28? Would the 350r still have been a success if it came out 3-4 years after the z28? That’s the timeframe we’re approaching

I think ford got caught with their pants down with the zl1/1le, hellcats, and demons coming out and performing the way they have. If ford had an answer for these cars it would have been out by now.
What bar do you suggest, Mr. Chief Engineer? You have to have a baseline and set targets beyond it. Your statement suggested that they would merely be satisfied with matching 3 year old competitors and have no way to project what they could come out with in the coming years. Hint: they do, and have very sophisticated models to predict this with decent accuracy. Ford only has to directly answer the ZL1 1LE if they want to. As it is, that car is quite literally almost the GT4 racecar with some interior trim, rather than a road car that is very track capable. It's impressive in its objective performance only and is a far less desirable car for most than say, a GT350R, despite the GT350R being slower (unless you're only doing time trials, perhaps).

Also, it's not Ford's halo car, that's the GT. The GT500 is the halo Mustang and they're going to stick with what the Mustang is best at: the best all-around car.
 

PP0001

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Have to agree with this. It's really kind of sad that Ford has taken almost 5 years to come up with something that MIGHT be faster than it's most direct competitor. Considering the rumors of a coming Z/28 with carbon-ceramic brakes, 750hp, further weight reduction than the ZL1 1LE, and a target 'Ring time under 7 minutes, Ford really should realize that if they don't build the car to compete with that, it'll be obsolete the minute that Camaro is released
Back in 2006 when Ford launched the new generation GT500's where was GM and Chrysler with respect to developing a faster Pony car than the GT500 and how many years did it take them to catch up especially when Ford launched their 662 HP versions in 2012.

When Ford launched the Boss 302 and in particular the Laguna Seca model in February, 2011 do you think that GM and Chrysler had a Pony car at the time that was competitive with the LS, obviously not and it took a while for them to respond and when they did their next offering was a 2014 Z28 at a cost of ~$26,000 more than the Laguna Seca. Not even close when it came to bang for the buck and as far as exclusivity Ford produced ~1550 LS models whereas GM produced ~3200 Z28 models. Interesting to see Boss 302 LS cars starting to rise in value and with the Z28's continuing to head South on value.

As a direct competitor to the Laguna Seca as mentioned above GM did launch a Z28 for the 2014MY and 2015MY with those cars ending up in being total flops from sales standpoint based on a car that was for the most part not streetable and questionable performance for a vehicle that boasted a NA 427 cubic inch engine (leftover engines from their Corvette program) and developed a whole 505 HP and if I recall a top speed of 128 MPH and poor zero to 60 and quarter mile times. All that performance or lack thereof came with an MSRP of $75,000 with most Z28's selling well below that mark and still remain the that way today.

Of course the same year that GM was still selling their 2015 Z28 when Ford launched their little NA 315 cubic inch engine in the Shelby GT350/R's which came with more horsepower and in the case of the 920A Base R model was certainly faster than the Z28 in all categories and came with an MSRP of ~$9,000 less than the Z28.

What a mismatch in performance and bang for the buck with respect to Pony cars between Ford and GM especially taking into account items such as CF wheels and rear spoiler that are standard on the R models.

Is it taking Ford longer than we want with the GT500, absolutely but based on Ford's history of producing outstanding HP Mustangs over some 6 decades I would suggest that the long wait will be worth it.

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Please explain what I’m missing. This is fords halo car. It should be looking to set the bar, not aiming at vehicles several years into their production cycle.

Take the z28 and 350r for example. Ford saw what Chevy did with the z28. Ford was able to fire back a year later with the 350r that not only outperformed the z28, but at a cheaper price tag as well. Are we going to pretend ford engineers weren’t benchmarking the 350r against the z28? Would the 350r still have been a success if it came out 3-4 years after the z28? That’s the timeframe we’re approaching

I think ford got caught with their pants down with the zl1/1le, hellcats, and demons coming out and performing the way they have. If ford had an answer for these cars it would have been out by now.
My bet is that with so many changes going on inside Ford that those people in charge of the project are in fear to make the decision or are paralyzed into not making the decision to go with it. No one really knows what Hackett is wanting and are afraid to ask. There's been a lot of people at Ford who have lost their jobs since Hackett has become CEO and those who are left don't want to make a mistake and loose their job. Vacillation and indecision has always been a Ford trademark but since Hackett's arrival it has multiplied ten fold and could be Ford's downfall.
 

Benjj

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Ahhh yes, the ford gt. $450k and limited production. So yes I guess I should have specified that this is fords “halo car that is actually obtainable” without selling your soul

And I think we are saying the same thing on what they are benchmarking, if the gt500 came out and matched the zl1/hellcats, enthusiasts are going to say “big whoop” after all this time. What I’m saying is that ford should be aiming not at this generation of competition but setting the bar for the next being this late to the party. I think we all fully expect/hope that ford isn’t looking to just match the zl1 and hellcats. Get it professor comprehension?
 

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Benjj

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My bet is that with so many changes going on inside Ford that those people in charge of the project are in fear to make the decision or are paralyzed into not making the decision to go with it. No one really knows what Hackett is wanting and are afraid to ask. There's been a lot of people at Ford who have lost their jobs since Hackett has become CEO and those who are left don't want to make a mistake and loose their job. Vacillation and indecision has always been a Ford trademark but since Hackett's arrival it has multiplied ten fold and could be Ford's downfall.
This is worrisome in that Hackett seems to be a strictly numbers guy. I feel it’s shortsighted to prune damn near the entirety of the car line up. I just don’t want him to cause the brand to stagnate where in return the competition stagnates. But what do I know? I just play an engineer on the internet
 

BmacIL

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Ahhh yes, the ford gt. $450k and limited production. So yes I guess I should have specified that this is fords “halo car that is actually obtainable” without selling your soul

And I think we are saying the same thing on what they are benchmarking, if the gt500 came out and matched the zl1/hellcats, enthusiasts are going to say “big whoop” after all this time. What I’m saying is that ford should be aiming not at this generation of competition but setting the bar for the next being this late to the party. I think we all fully expect/hope that ford isn’t looking to just match the zl1 and hellcats. Get it professor comprehension?
Agreed, and they are doing this.

However, you said this, with no basis:
Speaking of historical things, how about the fact that this car is being aimed at cars and track times several years old.
They set targets to be X% faster across a variety of metrics against existing competitors, with the understanding that the percentage they set will land them ahead of everyone else in the areas they choose to be. So, they go and grab those cars and run them around the track and strip, et all, and find out if they are X% better.
 

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Looking at the direction Hackett is taking Ford I doubt we will ever see a new GT500.
 

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Can’t wait to see what the curb weight ends up being. Regardless, the Vette C8 will just steal all of this car’s thunder, much like Ford did with the ‘13 500 to Chevy’s Gen 5 ZL1. Ford waited waaay too long to bring this thing to market. I can’t see who will buy this thing besides die hard Ford fans.
 

SVTSNAKE355

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Can’t wait to see what the curb weight ends up being. Regardless, the Vette C8 will just steal all of this car’s thunder, much like Ford did with the ‘13 500 to Chevy’s Gen 5 ZL1. Ford waited waaay too long to bring this thing to market. I can’t see who will buy this thing besides die hard Ford fans.
How is the c8 vette from Garbage Motors gonna steal the GT500? Those cars don't compete with each other.
 

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How is the c8 vette from Garbage Motors gonna steal the GT500? Those cars don't compete with each other.
In real world they do. I'm a Mustang buyer normally but now in a C7 Z06. Depending on the price point of the new GT500 it could very well compete with a Vette for a sports car buyers money. Given we are seeing Ford test the GT500 mules with the AMG GTR, 911s, etc. I'd say the Vette competes with the GT500.
 

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In real world they do. I'm a Mustang buyer normally but now in a C7 Z06. Depending on the price point of the new GT500 it could very well compete with a Vette for a sports car buyers money. Given we are seeing Ford test the GT500 mules with the AMG GTR, 911s, etc. I'd say the Vette competes with the GT500.
Smoking that good stuff... differently class of cars. Mustang will ALWAYS compete with the Crapmaro.. period. Vette's competitor are the GTR, Porches and direct competitor is the Viper. How would you like to see someone comparing the Viper ACR to the ZL1?

Most people who cross shop Vettes usually debate with a GTR, Porche or Viper.. go read the other forums if want.. No way in hell Vettes are direct competitors to Mustangs.

Maybe you may cross shop but now you're comparing a sports car to a muscle/pony car.
 

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In real world they do. I'm a Mustang buyer normally but now in a C7 Z06. Depending on the price point of the new GT500 it could very well compete with a Vette for a sports car buyers money. Given we are seeing Ford test the GT500 mules with the AMG GTR, 911s, etc. I'd say the Vette competes with the GT500.

agree ^ , I wanted a Ford but it's not looking it's going to go that way. the gt500 - so far - doesn't do it for me, and the mid engine vette is getting very appealing - so far. that's a matter of opinion tho, I really want to like this gt500. I'm bias in that regard, but it seems there may be too many pros on the vette side, and too many cons vs it. speculation of course, but from what is supposedly leaked.
 

Petroleum Jesus

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Smoking that good stuff... differently class of cars. Mustang will ALWAYS compete with the Crapmaro.. period. Vette's competitor are the GTR, Porches and direct competitor is the Viper. How would you like to see someone comparing the Viper ACR to the ZL1?

Most people who cross shop Vettes usually debate with a GTR, Porche or Viper.. go read the other forums if want.. No way in hell Vettes are direct competitors to Mustangs.

Maybe you may cross shop but now you're comparing a sports car to a muscle/pony car.
Perhaps that's the talk on forums, but when I drive through my neighborhood and look at what people have parked in their driveways, corvette and shelby buyers are one in the same. They tend to trade back and forth depending on which model is more current. There is even one guy who traded his gt350 for a z06, and then just recently the z06 for an '18 GT.
 

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Well if you had around 100k in "car credit" to purchase a car then you MIGHT take look at the GT500 if it fits the bill.. but more than likely you're gonna look at new Z06, slightly used ZR1, slightly used 2015+ GTR, slightly used Porsche 911, slightly used Viper, etc.. cars in the 100k+ range... Not sure if you will let the credit go to waste getting a GT500 which is cheaper unless you just really like the GT500 which if fine.

Noticed the MIGHT.. which means those cars in the 100k+ range are not direct competitors. One may cross shop to save $ or just like the Mustang more but that is personal preference.
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