Ace

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@Epiphany I think the discussion leads nowhere, since some people won't understand that these are actually 4 different cars: Daily capable ZL1 ($63,995k) and GT500 ($72,900), track focussed ZLE ($72,195) and GT500 CFTP ($92,595). Also have in mind that Ford wants $3,000 if you want to have navigation and a sound system, while Chevy only takes $495. All of them have their ups and down in direct comparisons. All of them are awesome value for the money.

If you think having $20k price difference between ZLE and CFTP does not matter, then the CFTP should also compete with the C7 ZR1 (both only have 2 seats and similiar horsepower). 🤷‍♂️





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Epiphany

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Entirely reasonable, I agree with you.
 

BillyJRacing

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@Epiphany I think the discussion leads nowhere, since some people won't understand that these are actually 4 different cars: Daily capable ZL1 ($63,995k) and GT500 ($72,900), track focussed ZLE ($72,195) and GT500 CFTP ($92,595). Also have in mind that Ford wants $3,000 if you want to have navigation and a sound system, while Chevy only takes $495. All of them have their ups and down in direct comparisons. All of them are awesome value for the money.

If you think having $20k price difference between ZLE and CFTP does not matter, then the CFTP should also compete with the C7 ZR1 (both only have 2 seats and similiar horsepower). 🤷‍♂️
It's faster than a Z06 for the same price. ZR1s cost more.
 

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Interesting conversation. Road course guys being very concerned about the GT500's performance with factory equipment and wanting it set up for track only driving.

I definitely think Ford did it right. If a person wants the absolute best performance on the road course and doesn't care about the street, they swap a few parts to make the car what they want. That's what I've been doing on my GT PP1.

Seems to me the only real reason to want a car that's terrible on the street in stock form is bragging rights. If someone really wants a car like that, the ZL1 1LE is available (for cheap). GM dealers can't even get MSRP for them.

And if the GT500 is a pig, the ZL1 is definitely piggish. The difference in weight isn't that much.
 

Tomster

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Road course guys being very concerned about the GT500's performance with factory equipment and wanting it set up for track only driving.
I ran my car stock on the track. The only real modifications I made was to add a roll cage and harnesses. I swapped my battery to a lithium battery to offset the weight of the cage. The car exceeded my expectations until the CVs let go. With that problem corrected, I see no reason to change anything else. The car was fast, agile, and performed way above expectations, until it didn't (LOL).
 

Hack

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I ran my car stock on the track. The only real modifications I made was to add a roll cage and harnesses. I swapped my battery to a lithium battery to offset the weight of the cage. The car exceeded my expectations until the CVs let go. With that problem corrected, I see no reason to change anything else. The car was fast, agile, and performed way above expectations, until it didn't (LOL).
Good to know and I'm glad to hear you were satisfied with it.

I felt the same about my 2016 GT350 when I owned it. I only did some minor mods like rear subframe lockouts, and a cage. I actually loved the Pilot Super Sport tires, even though they are rocks compared to what is on any 1LE and especially the ZL1 1LE. And I thought the suspension was setup perfectly on that car for commuting to work all week and then going to the track on the weekend.

Now my current PP1 is totally different. I only needed one onramp to realize the springs/shocks/tires had to go. ASAP.
 

Epiphany

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Interesting conversation. Road course guys being very concerned about the GT500's performance with factory equipment and wanting it set up for track only driving.

And if the GT500 is a pig, the ZL1 is definitely piggish. The difference in weight isn't that much.
Don't misconstrue. Nobody is saying they want the GT500 to be for "track only" driving. Harder edge? Yes.

And the ~300lb difference between the two cars is indeed significant. Though I suppose that when you can only do so many laps before the tank runs dry that endurance may not be a concern.
 

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Don't misconstrue. Nobody is saying they want the GT500 to be for "track only" driving. Harder edge? Yes.

And the ~300lb difference between the two cars is indeed significant. Though I suppose that when you can only do so many laps before the tank runs dry that endurance may not be a concern.
You can get through a 30 min HPDE session. Its tight, but it'll make it.

50 Miles to empty | 2015+ S550 Mustang Forum (GT, EcoBoost, GT350, GT500, Bullitt, Mach 1) - Mustang6G.com
 

Epiphany

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There were two of us that ran out of fuel at the Track Attack and since it was the first real track day at the school for the GT500 (the first scheduled day was a couple days prior and they got some heavy rain) they talked about topping the tanks off after the dragstrip and near the end of the day.

I was running low after 20 some minutes at Roebling. Thankfully it was easy (and much cheaper) to exit the track and fill up at a nearby gas station.
 

Hack

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Don't misconstrue. Nobody is saying they want the GT500 to be for "track only" driving. Harder edge? Yes.

And the ~300lb difference between the two cars is indeed significant. Though I suppose that when you can only do so many laps before the tank runs dry that endurance may not be a concern.
Well, luckily you can swap out tires, wheels, springs, brakes, etc. if you decide you want to. Tires especially can make a huge difference in lap times. Just going to shorter tread life tires like come stock on the ZL1 1LE would improve lap times. I understand some of the real specialty stuff like dampers (and the tuning for them) - is not so easy to source.

I believe you can tell a difference in 300 lbs in a car - depending on how heavy the car is and how much power it has. And probably how well you know the car. It will make a little less than 0.3 second difference in a 1/4 mile in a car like the GT500. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't notice that tiny change. Definitely having a passenger in a lighter car can make a big difference. I didn't really notice it so much in my GT350 in the past.
 
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Epiphany

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Good points.

I was 300lbs more than a ZL1 1LE on track at Roebling. With a passenger, I was 500lbs more than him. Given the 1LE had much better tire than the Base GT500, the difference adds up very quickly on a road course.
 

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There were two of us that ran out of fuel at the Track Attack and since it was the first real track day at the school for the GT500 (the first scheduled day was a couple days prior and they got some heavy rain) they talked about topping the tanks off after the dragstrip and near the end of the day.

I was running low after 20 some minutes at Roebling. Thankfully it was easy (and much cheaper) to exit the track and fill up at a nearby gas station.
Yes, you HAVE TO start with a full tank if you are going to run flat out. When I went out on the first session of that day, I went out in group 2 with the other instructors I didn't feel like getting up early that day and I was told I can run in whatever group I wanted. There was lots of traffic and it was difficult to run flat out. You couldn't just pass, you had to wait for a signal, more congestion, etc. In group 1 there much fewer cars and unrestricted passing.
 

Epiphany

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I kept some cleaner and a rag in the trunk as every time I filled up I had fuel dribbling back out of the neck and onto the quarter panel. She was gagging and couldn't take any more. I just wonder if there will ever be an aftermarket solution short of a trunk mounted fuel cell. Something tells me there won't be.
 

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