2020 GT350 "track use" warranty exclusion

[Tomster]

don’t know if you see the irony in the last part of your post:
Jim and his team wrote the warranty but they screwed up and now, because of you bringing it to his attention, he say that it was never his intent and will he will review it , modify it, per your statement, and issue a written statement about it after the holiday.....
Not trying to pick up a fight, just pointing out some “weirdness”
Have a happy Thanksgiving

Yes, happy Thanksgiving to you too.

You cant make everybody happy, lol

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[STFUdonny]

I couldn't have said it better myself. I, like you, don't live in a world of grey. Unfortunately, I caught this little blurb after the fact. Anybody who accepts this discrepancy and hopes for the best will one day be left with a big surprise and a huge bill.

I can’t thank you enough for the amount of effort you’ve put out there to get this addressed. I will continue to monitor the situation in the next week and if Jim is able to do what he said to you about rectifying this, well then damn.... 2020 350R or a 500 will be the topic at the dinner table which will without fail result in some serious eye rolls and gnashing of teeth from the wife.

Thanks again Tom!

 

[Hack]

I don’t want a Shelby. I won’t tell you why in this setting because I know you Shelby folk get your jimmies rustled pretty easy, but just know that a Shelby is not at all what I want to buy, or else I’d already have a Shelby

However, I don’t see why it’s so hard to see the frustration in the fact that I’m spending Shelby money for yet another limited production (in fact, likely moreso than any Shelby) Mustang, yet getting the same treatment as a run-of-the-mill Ecoboost buyer. In fact, I remember specifically the mentioning this before pricing was released, and you yourself were the one who told me “gotta pay to play, Shelby owners pay more to have that kind of stuff included”... which I totally understood when we were under the impression that a loaded Mach 1 was going to cost significantly less than a Shelby. But a Shelby buyer spends $60k and gets a free track weekend (among other things) included with it. I spend $60k on a new Mustang with Shelby-level everything, just without the name... there’s no reason I shouldn’t get the same thing, especially when someone spending $18k on a Fiesta even gets that

But alas...

Not my intention to argue for the sake of arguing, so yes I completely understand what you are saying. I agree that Ford's pricing on the Mach 1 is high for what you get. I agree with you that people should get more for the money and that the Mach 1 isn't as good of a deal as it could be. I do understand why people would want one, don't get me wrong. There's a lot of good stuff in the Mach 1 as well. And the front end looks really good. Better than most of the current generation IMO.

Yes prices for Ford cars have gone up a lot in the last 5 years, so if you compare a higher optioned Mach 1 to what I paid for a GT350 in 2015, the number is really close. And the GT350 was the top dog at the time rather than a mid-level performer. It bothers me too. That's why my last purchase of a Ford was a used car and I'm modifying it in my garage rather than buying new. The hits of price increases and some of the engine/transmission changes soured me on buying a new GT and I wasn't ready to spend the money for another new GT350 either.

 

[Davesvt2000]

Ironic that back in August Jim showed up at an open track event Gingerman raceway south haven, Michigan and was thrashing a bunch of cars they brought out for us to look over, including new 500 CFTP, 350’s, and the new Mach 1.

yes that’s my car in the middle. But he went back and forth between the rapid red CFTPand the Twister orange CFTP.

 

[Tomster]

I can’t thank you enough for the amount of effort you’ve put out there to get this addressed. I will continue to monitor the situation in the next week and if Jim is able to do what he said to you about rectifying this, well then damn.... 2020 350R or a 500 will be the topic at the dinner table which will without fail result in some serious eye rolls and gnashing of teeth from the wife.

Thanks again Tom!

Its my pleasure. After my conversation with Jim, it is my opinion that you ought to grab that MSRP 500 while you can. I wish you could have heard the passion in his voice. He is a track guy like us. His team wrote the exclusion and he will revisit the situation with a promise to clarify. His emphatic intent was materials and workmanship are covered on the track. If you money shift your car, its on you. That goes without saying. Why that exclusion is in there is beyond me (again, it was written for the GT, but made its way down the 350 and 500 verbiage).

Anyway, today was good day. Jim was a pleasure to talk with and I 100% believe that this has been taken care of. If you are more comfortable waiting on written confirmation, I understand. Initially I was weary of anyone giving the OK, but coming from Jim, I don't think we have anything to worry about.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

As someone who works in the industry i find this whole situation dumb. Because Ford could of capitalized on this back when the boss 302 came out because race car and should of sold a “track day warranty” as an option. A special warranty just for guys that are going to beat the living shit out of it
Build in an hour meter for track use and have a built in data logger. And GO

what’s the problem here they can’t take the time to save them money while also making a few bucks

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Speaking from experience, they cover the z06 for track use. GM just didn’t want to admit the 14-16’s would overheat on track during “normal use under normal conditions.” Thankfully the issue was fixed for the ‘17 MY.

the over heating issue with the LT4 wasn’t truly fixed per say, they just moved the bar higher “the 8 speeds still have issues” but to be fair the early Z06s where terrible. Chevy rushed the whole program through development because the next gen ls7 wasn’t passing the emissions targets they wanted

 

[Gogoggansgo]

While I agree with this completely, I would also say that if a company is touting a car as being “track-ready”, then the car should be able to withstand whatever standard track use may throw at it, and if it doesn’t, it should be considered a manufacturing defect as the components were designed with track use in mind



You keep asserting this, but it’s simply not true. “Track use” is completely separate from “racing” or “timed event”. Just because you’re driving on a race track doesn’t mean you’re being timed by a mediator and competing in any way. In fact, MOST track events don’t do this. You need licensing and such to compete in timed or wheel-to-wheel road course events

“Track use” means ANY instance of a car being on a race track. “Racing” or “timed event” means only cars that are on a race track with the purpose of driving competitively

exactly correct on both points but you’re also forgetting the thus far bad reputation of the gt350 engine. We don’t know the exact figures and never will. Most Gt350s have never touched a track which is why all the oiling issues, NVH issues, valve spring issues. We have seen from this engine indicate Ford knows it has a higher than average failure rate compared to a run of the mill coyote. Using wording like they have had is just a way for them, to pull the “abuse card” and deny your claim. Then if you don’t like it it’s up to you to take them to court. This has been a major issue in the hellcat world. Dodge won’t cover jack, just go look at the forums lol

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Hopefully not. Both Ford and the parts suppliers benefit from a quick resolution. As much as a supplier doesn't want to lose Fords business, I can only guess what it costs Ford to find a new source for a part that is already being produced by someone as opposed to just figuring it out and moving forward. If a supplier wants to keep making parts for Ford, they will both spend the time required to ensure a low failure rate as well as the mentioned quick resolutions.

I forget how many versions there were but Mustang AC evaporators went through the ringer. Extra time spent initially in testing might have resulted in a lot fewer headaches for consumers...and less expense for Ford...as an example.

This is very true but there is one caveat. These engines are hand built and also they closed down the Romeo engine plant. So now it’s just one guy building it, to be fair i seriously doubt most of the engine failures have been the result of the guys not doing there jobs. But it’s really hard to blame a supplier when every single part is touch by a worker before assembly. I work in the industry it goes both ways, it also doesn’t help that most of the gt350 failures seem to be all over the place, it’s not like the LS7 which the valve spring debacle

so as of right now with Ford holding there suppliers In contempt, it’s only going to cause more friction. I’m here to tell you right now Ford warranty issues aren’t from there suppliers lol.And for the most part it’s not the dude on the line either. It’s been the result of bad line engineering and not getting things dialed in

best example is comparing the s197 vs the s550

my dad got a 2010 GT at launch and had the plant manager at FRAP personally walk it down the line, it also got a second coat of clear. This is know as a show car spec, it’s nothing special but they do it for the higher ups. Well in his quarter panel above the wheel well on both sides he had major die marks from the new dies and had to have a paintless dent repair remove them. It had a few small dirt spots but other all not bad. Then i got a 14 track pack and only had two issues, a dirt spot in the hood i fixed at the plant and the passenger side fender wasn’t on gauge. But that was it, the car was spot on no panel gap issues

now let’s get to the s550 lol. The first major issue they Had was the fenders, on the s197 they had a robot do it. But due to it being aluminum and changing the line, now and since they’re 100 percent human installed. Which has led to all the panel gap issues in the front, and the last i checked they still haven’t fixed the fit & finshed of these cars

so you mean to tell me in one generation of car they went from not having major QC issues to the s550 being the butt of jokes

but it’s the suppliers fault

sure thing lol

 

[stanglife]

This is very true but there is one caveat. These engines are hand built and also they closed down the Romeo engine plant. So now it’s just one guy building it, to be fair i seriously doubt most of the engine failures have been the result of the guys not doing there jobs. But it’s really hard to blame a supplier when every single part is touch by a worker before assembly. I work in the industry it goes both ways, it also doesn’t help that most of the gt350 failures seem to be all over the place, it’s not like the LS7 which the valve spring debacle

so as of right now with Ford holding there suppliers In contempt, it’s only going to cause more friction. I’m here to tell you right now Ford warranty issues aren’t from there suppliers lol.And for the most part it’s not the dude on the line either. It’s been the result of bad line engineering and not getting things dialed in

best example is comparing the s197 vs the s550

my dad got a 2010 GT at launch and had the plant manager at FRAP personally walk it down the line, it also got a second coat of clear. This is know as a show car spec, it’s nothing special but they do it for the higher ups. Well in his quarter panel above the wheel well on both sides he had major die marks from the new dies and had to have a paintless dent repair remove them. It had a few small dirt spots but other all not bad. Then i got a 14 track pack and only had two issues, a dirt spot in the hood i fixed at the plant and the passenger side fender wasn’t on gauge. But that was it, the car was spot on no panel gap issues

now let’s get to the s550 lol. The first major issue they Had was the fenders, on the s197 they had a robot do it. But due to it being aluminum and changing the line, now and since they’re 100 percent human installed. Which has led to all the panel gap issues in the front, and the last i checked they still haven’t fixed the fit & finshed of these cars

so you mean to tell me in one generation of car they went from not having major QC issues to the s550 being the butt of jokes

but it’s the suppliers fault

sure thing lol

Certainly it’s a mix but you make some blanket assertions with no evidence. Oil cooler line - AC condenser are the only 2 reasons my 16R saw the dealer for repairs and both of them were supplier issues...both in the first year of ownership. We have a 2003 Toyota Tacoma since new - want to guess how many times we’ve had it at the dealer for repairs in 17 years?? There’s no lack of QC issues, I agree..but Ford is clearly on to something here and anything they can do to improve the cars is ok with me.

 

[jake_zx2]

Man, I wish I could get an extra coat of clearcoat on my Mustang from factory... maybe then the paint wouldn’t chip so god damn easily :eyeroll: lol

 

[Tomster]

Certainly it’s a mix but you make some blanket assertions with no evidence. Oil cooler line - AC condenser are the only 2 reasons my 16R saw the dealer for repairs and both of them were supplier issues...both in the first year of ownership. We have a 2003 Toyota Tacoma since new - want to guess how many times we’ve had it at the dealer for repairs in 17 years?? There’s no lack of QC issues, I agree..but Ford is clearly on to something here and anything they can do to improve the cars is ok with me.

Jeff, that's just him.... Anytime he shows up it is just to stir the pot. Don't give him the satisfaction.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Man, I wish I could get an extra coat of clearcoat on my Mustang from factory... maybe then the paint wouldn’t chip so god damn easily :eyeroll: lol

if I recall correctly Ford went to water based past on the s550. Because the paint now chips like it’s going out of style and it’s not just cord

 

[pilotgore]

if I recall correctly Ford went to water based past on the s550. Because the paint now chips like it’s going out of style and it’s not just cord

The base coat is waterborne, but the clear coat is still solvent based.

 

[Tomster]

Go ahead, feed the troll.

Have fun guys.

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