2019 Handling Option - FP Camber plate - install or not?

[mrbillwot]

Hi,
Wondering if anyone with a MY 2019 that opted for the OEM handling pkg has had their camber plates installed.
OR if they have knowledge of any alignment interval disadvantages in installing them especially when mostly going to see street use.

I assume some like me opted for this pkg becuase it sounded interesting as part of the 2019 specific changes plus it makes an order more unique and knowing it was dealer installed order option that the installation/alignment cost is included in the base cost. My car landed at the dealership yesterday after being ordered 9 months ago so its decision time. The money is already spent so there's no point in debating that part. Ideally I want the car configured with everything ordered as a starting point. While I may track it someday (just did trackattack 4 weeks ago - awesome!) I have no immediate plan to track it. Yeah, that also means SC2 tires need a backup to keep this streetable given frequent New England rain & cold winters but that's a different topic.

The gurney flap is an easy decision for me: Might as well be Dealer installed. I want to see how it looks and I'll take it off myselt later.

The camber plates are a more difficult question - IF (big if) their installation does not force a less street-able alignment AND if its as solid in holding that alignment on street surfaces then: I go with Dealer installed (includes alignment of course).
Alternately if it is anything where its introduction means alignment needs to be fussed with on an excessive basis for street use then I would reconsider that.

Anyone have any relevant experience or had a chance to analyze the design? I honestly haven't even seen these yet.
Thanks for the op-eds.

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[RJay]

Hi,
Wondering if anyone with a MY 2019 that opted for the OEM handling pkg has had their camber plates installed.
OR if they have knowledge of any alignment interval disadvantages in installing them especially when mostly going to see street use.

I assume some like me opted for this pkg becuase it sounded interesting as part of the 2019 specific changes plus it makes an order more unique and knowing it was dealer installed order option that the installation/alignment cost is included in the base cost. My car landed at the dealership yesterday after being ordered 9 months ago so its decision time. The money is already spent so there's no point in debating that part. Ideally I want the car configured with everything ordered as a starting point. While I may track it someday (just did trackattack 4 weeks ago - awesome!) I have no immediate plan to track it. Yeah, that also means SC2 tires need a backup to keep this streetable given frequent New England rain & cold winters but that's a different topic.

The gurney flap is an easy decision for me: Might as well be Dealer installed. I want to see how it looks and I'll take it off myselt later.

The camber plates are a more difficult question - IF (big if) their installation does not force a less street-able alignment AND if its as solid in holding that alignment on street surfaces then: I go with Dealer installed (includes alignment of course).
Alternately if it is anything where its introduction means alignment needs to be fussed with on an excessive basis for street use then I would reconsider that.

Anyone have any relevant experience or had a chance to analyze the design? I honestly haven't even seen these yet.
Thanks for the op-eds.

So, two separate and distinct points, camber plates and Gurney flap:

You paid $850 for the set, and part of that price is a dealer install of the camber plates and realignment. Now, if you NEVER intend to track it, I would say leave the plates off and keep them stored in case you ever sell the car. If you have the slightest urge to get on a track, I would install them so you can take advantage of the factory provided settings.

The Gurney flap I would leave off. Except for tracking and car shows. There have been several threads about rock chipping the rear valance from the turbulence that it generates. Also, on another thread, those things sell for about $800 just by themselves - and I think they only have four allen heads holding them on. No one has reported one stolen but why take the chance?

My .02 cents...

 

[mrbillwot]

So, two separate and distinct points, camber plates and Gurney flap:

You paid $850 for the set, and part of that price is a dealer install of the camber plates and realignment. Now, if you NEVER intend to track it, I would say leave the plates off and keep them stored in case you ever sell the car. If you have the slightest urge to get on a track, I would install them so you can take advantage of the factory provided settings.

The Gurney flap I would leave off. Except for tracking and car shows. There have been several threads about rock chipping the rear valance from the turbulence that it generates. Also, on another thread, those things sell for about $800 just by themselves - and I think they only have four allen heads holding them on. No one has reported one stolen but why take the chance?

My .02 cents...

Good thoughts Randy - thanks for that! Virtual beer/coffee for your $0.02.

I agree on the camber plates could be a great way to enhance even limited track use IF (big if) dialing in and out related camber angles is easy (I don't know if that is the case - easier perhaps but if it requires alignment tools not as easy as add & subtract for street then track then street - I don't know, I've not seen any tech or setup info & don't know how track guys do this - I do understand the handling benefits just now how this is dialed in. Either way IF the one caveat, even if I might track the car (I certainly might) where it could prove worthy of its task, is that in the mean time it needs frequent adjustments (I'll make up something not literal but analogous in products I've engineered) because lets say the locking mechanism that holds the setup always comes undone from vibration or flexes despite Loctite blue...and if you can't avoid rutted scarified 3rd world highway roads & gaps (every road & ramp here is torn up right now) THEN in that case its more liability than benefit. Yeah, I know a lot of ifs but that's the question about the reliability part only - not the value when tracking is the part I'm hoping to hear about. I'll look into this with my dealer tomorrow or over the weekend too - heck if Ford Performance chat wasn't offline today I would have asked them 1st - they are supposed to support this.
I will share here what/if I learn.

The gurney - I agree about the screws - I would order tam-proof screws - helps keep the honest people honest like any lock. I'm not sure the flaps are rare or as valuable if they've still stuffed them into every MY19 trunk whether ordered or not (and they only fit MY19 swings AFIK)....but either way its worth protecting because its ours.

As for the rear damage part - I need to see if there is more info than what I've read before. Perhaps there is but it didn't make sense to me before. The gurney/wickerbil itself, if behaving as it is supposed to which is to simply combine the air stream further back (sometimes described as "flow separation can be delayed") rather than as drag or turbulence closer behind the rear valance, then it would not cause that effect. The wing itself would be more suspect....especially without the gurney to help spoil the turbulence & drag. Not convinced yet that rocks or course sand is lifting and hammering forward into rear decks because of this but maybe I've missed some more compelling evidence that its a turbulent mess despite the design efforts. I would love to use my work 10K frame per second camera to study it in super slow-mo drive-bys but that's a bunch of work ;-)

 

[jmn444]

you can have them installed and still have factory alignment specs. it allows fairly easy changes of lifting the front end, loosening the 3 nuts on top, pushing in the strut and re-torquing to add more camber... do same and pull strut outward to remove that camber. toe should be ok if you can mark the plates somehow to replicate the factory camber setting...

I have my own toe plates and camber caster gauge so I may be biased about how easy it is to go from street to track settings and I also usually just drive on street with lots of camber as I hit enough track days that it's easier to just leave it as is.

 

[jmn444]

the alignment will not need to be redone any more frequently w/ the plates installed as long as they are properly installed and torqued.

 

[Voodoo Velocity]

The gurney - I agree about the screws - I would order tam-proof screws - helps keep the honest people honest like any lock. I'm not sure the flaps are rare or as valuable if they've still stuffed them into every MY19 trunk whether ordered or not (and they only fit MY19 swings AFIK)....but either way its worth protecting because its ours.

People who did not order the handling package are getting the gurney flap as well?

 

[mqu02]

People who did not order the handling package are getting the gurney flap as well?

Yep, I did. It was in the trunk right next to the chin splitter (which I asked to install myself). I’m confident the dealer didn’t order it, and my car does not have the handling package. I do have an early car however @ K0195.

 

[sox3]

Yep, I did. It was in the trunk right next to the chin splitter (which I asked to install myself). I’m confident the dealer didn’t order it, and my car does not have the handling package. I do have an early car however @ K0195.

K0215 here and no gurney flap in my trunk. Think you got lucky. I did get the CF dash for free though.

 

[mrbillwot]

you can have them installed and still have factory alignment specs. it allows fairly easy changes of lifting the front end, loosening the 3 nuts on top, pushing in the strut and re-torquing to add more camber... do same and pull strut outward to remove that camber. toe should be ok if you can mark the plates somehow to replicate the factory camber setting...

I have my own toe plates and camber caster gauge so I may be biased about how easy it is to go from street to track settings and I also usually just drive on street with lots of camber as I hit enough track days that it's easier to just leave it as is.

Thanks Jason - thats very encouraging and is what I assumed was the case. I like your thinking - I make jigs for everything I can that I want to have repeatable or designed before moving or cutting - its a useful form of OCD ;-)
So I will ask my dealer if they agree with that for this specific plate and if they're good with it then I am because they'll be the ones who see it if I'm unhappy with the results.
Great feedback - thanks all for who are kicking in op-eds.

 

[jmn444]

I should clarify one thing, based on my adjustments, a change of around 1.5 of camber will change toe from zero (with max camber) to 1/8" in roughly (with -1 camber), which is somewhat ideal. So the diff between OEM -1 camber and max -2.6 w/ the plates is "reasonable". IF you opted to run zero camber for street (the plates would allow this if pulled all the way out i think, and then max out the plates at -2.6, then you'd have a swing that results in toe changes that will eat your tires.

toe plates are CHEAP and easy to double check so you don't kill tires, but everybody's goals are different so figured I would clarify so nobody destroys a $1500+ set of tires based on my previous comment...

 

[mrbillwot]

I should clarify one thing, based on my adjustments, a change of around 1.5 of camber will change toe from zero (with max camber) to 1/8" in roughly (with -1 camber), which is somewhat ideal. So the diff between OEM -1 camber and max -2.6 w/ the plates is "reasonable". IF you opted to run zero camber for street (the plates would allow this if pulled all the way out i think, and then max out the plates at -2.6, then you'd have a swing that results in toe changes that will eat your tires.

toe plates are CHEAP and easy to double check so you don't kill tires, but everybody's goals are different so figured I would clarify so nobody destroys a $1500+ set of tires based on my previous comment...

Do you find the GT350 supplement numbers for Front alignment are not ideal for street? Or have they been revised from -1.10deg Camber, 0.06deg toe-in? I'm not picking on your rounding numbers close enough - just asking the general question of experience. I also wonder has any of this changed from previous model years.

 

[RJay]

People who did not order the handling package are getting the gurney flap as well?

Some did, some didn't. It was totally random. Usually folks who sat through the L-O-N-G winter wait for steering wheels, stripes, and shifters found them in the trunk. I was hoping for one but no luck.

 

[jmn444]

Do you find the GT350 supplement numbers for Front alignment are not ideal for street? Or have they been revised from -1.10deg Camber, 0.06deg toe-in? I'm not picking on your rounding numbers close enough - just asking the general question of experience. I also wonder has any of this changed from previous model years.

I don't know of any drivers that could tell a diff between -1 or -1.1. I honestly don't even know what the recommended numbers are/were. I was running -3.9 up front and -2.5 in rear for track and street... currently backing that off to around -3 ish up front because braking with the current tires was in ABS too much for me. may in turn back off on the rear, but for now the rear tires seem to be wearing really nice at that setting.

Nobody should be getting even remotely close to what this car is capable of on the street...

 

[jmn444]

OH!

My "somewhat ideal" comment really had nothing to do with the camber, but rather the change from zero toe to 1/8" toe in... zero works well on track, and the toe in is decent for street stability...

just rough numbers... if tracking the car enough, the tires will be long gone before little variations in alignment would wear them out... so i'm less concerned about it personally.

 

[mrbillwot]

Nobody should be getting even remotely close to what this car is capable of on the street...

Just did TrackAttack mid July & agree.
As for tire wear - I'll be happy to just get in some break in & enjoyment of the car on nice days before fall is over....will consider wheel & tire options for next spring unless I find the SC2's to be ridiculous (i.e. rain delays on break in trips).
Was at dealer today spec'ng what I wanted done/installed for picking up the car next friday if all goes well on paperwork.
Ford Perf. camber plates are going in - we'll see how the alignment holds.
Thanks again for the input.

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