2019-2020 MT82 swap

[Elp_jc]

The Mach1 Tremec TR3160 will have rev-match and all other features of the D4, so you guys can ask Tremec if they can sell you a Ford-spec 3160. Or a harness for their other trannies. Something has to be made available soon IMO. Having said that, I've seen mentioned more than once a MT82-D4 with a few modifications is actually better than the Tremec, and the gear ratios are actually spread more evenly, so shorter differential gearing should be the better alternative, no? Unless the car is just going to be used for drag racing, which I doubt.

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[supertorque]

Oh okay. You weren't ever able to find a wiring diagram for the 2019+?

Yes I did find a wiring diagram but that did no good. The MT82-D4 has a six pin wiring harness coming from a no contact (magnetic) sensor. Simply put, the cars PCM is looking for a lot more information than the Tremec T56 Magnum XL could provide. There is no wiring harness programmable or not that can make this swap work without loosing A LOT of the cars essential functions. I don't like it anymore than anyone else but if your looking to do a trans. swap then you need to buy a different year mustang. However, if you can find a way to make any aftermarket transmission work for these new mustangs and still have all the functions you could possibly make an ass load of money!

 

[boB]

Another option (maybe): find a used MT82-D4 (cheap, with broken shift forks ?) and install the gears from am earlier MT82. Now we have the ratios we want and the functionality.
If I were not ok with the D4 gear ratios I would hook up an oscilloscope and see what the shift sensor signals are. The wires are not twisted/shielded so I expect they are just digital signals

 

[supertorque]

You are correct, they are just digital square wave signals with varying pulse rates depending on what gear its in. The rev. match is where the problem is. If you remove the six pin connector from the side of the new MT82-D4 there is nothing underneath it but bare metal. The connector itself has a microchip in it that can determine the position of a strong magnet attached to the shift rod that is inside of the transmission case. It's hard for me to explain correctly because I am not a computer or electronics wiz. But please trust me on this one because i have done more than enough due diligence and spent a lot of money and have had a good amount of hands on experience trying to make a $5,000 transmission work only to swap back to the MT82. I don't have a problem with the gear ratios. My problem was with the gear lock out that caused me to loose just about every street race after I wound out first gear. The cause was the stupid remote style shifter that the factory MT82 has. It was so bad that when I went over 5000 rpm's in first gear I literally had to take a deep breath and then exhale before i could put it into second gear. By that time the person I was racing was 2 or 3 car lengths ahead of me. It was embarrassing to say the least to come to the next red light beside a Nissan Maxima that just ate my lunch after my previous attempt to blow his doors off. lol Fortunately I was able to fix all that with new heavy duty motor mounts, a better twin disc clutch and a BlowFish racing mount that attaches the shifter to the transmission like it should be instead of to the cars frame like Fords engineers made it to be. That is enough from me for now. Ya'll have fun and be safe about it !

 

[chesster51]

You are correct, they are just digital square wave signals with varying pulse rates depending on what gear its in. The rev. match is where the problem is. If you remove the six pin connector from the side of the new MT82-D4 there is nothing underneath it but bare metal. The connector itself has a microchip in it that can determine the position of a strong magnet attached to the shift rod that is inside of the transmission case. It's hard for me to explain correctly because I am not a computer or electronics wiz. But please trust me on this one because i have done more than enough due diligence and spent a lot of money and have had a good amount of hands on experience trying to make a $5,000 transmission work only to swap back to the MT82. I don't have a problem with the gear ratios. My problem was with the gear lock out that caused me to loose just about every street race after I wound out first gear. The cause was the stupid remote style shifter that the factory MT82 has. It was so bad that when I went over 5000 rpm's in first gear I literally had to take a deep breath and then exhale before i could put it into second gear. By that time the person I was racing was 2 or 3 car lengths ahead of me. It was embarrassing to say the least to come to the next red light beside a Nissan Maxima that just ate my lunch after my previous attempt to blow his doors off. lol Fortunately I was able to fix all that with new heavy duty motor mounts, a better twin disc clutch and a BlowFish racing mount that attaches the shifter to the transmission like it should be instead of to the cars frame like Fords engineers made it to be. That is enough from me for now. Ya'll have fun and be safe about it !

What was your source for the heavy duty motor mounts? Did you ever consider a MGW shifter?

 

[supertorque]

I bought the Granatelli Motor mounts from AmericanMuscle.com. They were a little tricky to install. I wouldn't say it was hard but just tricky. And no I have never looked into a MGW shifter. But I will now.

 

[boB]

You are correct, they are just digital square wave signals with varying pulse rates depending on what gear its in. The rev. match is where the problem is. If you remove the six pin connector from the side of the new MT82-D4 there is nothing underneath it but bare metal. The connector itself has a microchip in it that can determine the position of a strong magnet attached to the shift rod that is inside of the transmission case. It's hard for me to explain correctly because I am not a computer or electronics wiz !

I helped develop a magnet/hall effect shifter years ago and one of the features was that the signals should not be "1" or "0" (V+ or ground) because a short to V+ (not common) or ground (much more common) would look just like a valid signal. A pulse signal is more robust and makes it easy to detect that a short is a fault condition. In that case we might have magnets and sensors to determine fore/aft and rotational movements of the shift rod fed into a chip that outputs the various pulse rates to signal to the PCM which gear is selected.
That still does not make it easy to duplicate. ;)

 

[marcom0705]

I helped develop a magnet/hall effect shifter years ago and one of the features was that the signals should not be "1" or "0" (V+ or ground) because a short to V+ (not common) or ground (much more common) would look just like a valid signal. A pulse signal is more robust and makes it easy to detect that a short is a fault condition. In that case we might have magnets and sensors to determine fore/aft and rotational movements of the shift rod fed into a chip that outputs the various pulse rates to signal to the PCM which gear is selected.
That still does not make it easy to duplicate. ;)

Hopefully someone can put what you just said to work and get us a solution soon. I don't expect it to be cheap though

 

[ice445]

Hopefully someone can put what you just said to work and get us a solution soon. I don't expect it to be cheap though

I think we just have to wait for the Tremec 3160 from the Mach 1 to be available to buy, 100% chance that it has the same rev match feature.

 

[supertorque]

I helped develop a magnet/hall effect shifter years ago and one of the features was that the signals should not be "1" or "0" (V+ or ground) because a short to V+ (not common) or ground (much more common) would look just like a valid signal. A pulse signal is more robust and makes it easy to detect that a short is a fault condition. In that case we might have magnets and sensors to determine fore/aft and rotational movements of the shift rod fed into a chip that outputs the various pulse rates to signal to the PCM which gear is selected.
That still does not make it easy to duplicate. ;)

Exactly! Finally someone with real expertise to chime in. I am not as smart as you are but from what I can understand about what you just said, it's clear that the signal cannot be duplicated. The entire transmission has to be designed around that kind of technology. I replaced the sensor only on my car and took a chance that it didn't have to be calibrated or matched with the magnet inside the transmission that is attached to the shift rod. The reason I say that is because I couldn't buy just the sensor (six pin connector). The sensor or six pin connector came with the shift rod attached to the magnet that it uses to determine what gear it is in and the PCM calculates what the engines RPM's needs to be to match the selected gears speed and that folks is how rev. match works! (I'm pretty sure thats right) Again, I'm no computer wizard but I'm not a complete moron either. I guess i'm somewhere in between. Like a moron / trans.computer wizard if you will. haha That's funny. I'm a trans-moron and today I identify as a computer wiz.

 

[mangosmoothie]

Another option (maybe): find a used MT82-D4 (cheap, with broken shift forks ?) and install the gears from am earlier MT82. Now we have the ratios we want and the functionality.
If I were not ok with the D4 gear ratios I would hook up an oscilloscope and see what the shift sensor signals are. The wires are not twisted/shielded so I expect they are just digital signals

Any idea if this is possible? Would the PCM and all other computers get all the info it needed if you swapped the gears over? If so, I'd rather get a calimer d4 with 11-17 gearing vs changing the rear end.

I don't want to buy another trans and rebuild it just for an experiment that may not work...

 

[boB]

Any idea if this is possible? Would the PCM and all other computers get all the info it needed if you swapped the gears over? If so, I'd rather get a calimer d4 with 11-17 gearing vs changing the rear end.

I don't want to buy another trans and rebuild it just for an experiment that may not work...

Possible, probably. Straightforward, not likely. With swaps like this there are usually "gotchas" that take time and $$ to sort out. We know the clutch/flywheel is different, some sensors and wiring have changed, and the big one: "what we don't know that we don't know". Someone like Calimer who works on a lot of these may have a better answer.

 

[mangosmoothie]

I reached out to calimer. They said not possible :/

the tremec from a Mach 1 is available however

https://parts.levittownfordparts.com/oem-parts/ford-transmission-assembly-mr3z7003a

 

[Kidd]

Necroing this thread lol. I've broken two mt82-D4s in my 2020 PP1, 401A car so I'm on the hunt for better options. I've read through the thread and am curious if anyone has thought about putting the magnet for the 6 pin connector inside a T56 on the shift rod like it is on the mt82? Am I wrong in thinking this way? is it possible to take the T56 apart to the point of being able to do this? How big it the magnet that mounts on the shift rod?

 

[boB]

Necroing this thread lol. I've broken two mt82-D4s in my 2020 PP1, 401A car so I'm on the hunt for better options. I've read through the thread and am curious if anyone has thought about putting the magnet for the 6 pin connector inside a T56 on the shift rod like it is on the mt82? Am I wrong in thinking this way? is it possible to take the T56 apart to the point of being able to do this? How big it the magnet that mounts on the shift rod?

Maybe... possibly. The two transmissions appear to have a similar type of shift mechanism. Adding a magnet to the shift rod is probably not difficult. Locating the black box in the correct location may be more difficult.
Calimer has probably disassembled a D4 and seen the magnet and location.

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