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2018 Whipple GT - Break It, Build It, Race It, Hopefully not repeat it!

Bluelightning

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Yeah, that oil looks really bad. When you first pull the plug, you can see the water/coolant start to come out before the oil. If you didn't see a blown head gasket, I would definitely check the intercooler out as you are taking on coolant/water from somewhere.
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bakerjd

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Bryan, for what it's worth, I just checked for that corrosion issue on my broken block and didn't see any signs of what you have going on. Ran E85 almost exclusively.
 
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Det_Riot

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Finally got the results back from the blackstone analysis. I'll let the results paint the picture for y'all

39908231703_c5e6e94404_h.jpg




So what does this mean? The color of the oil was just the fact that it didn't totally dirty yet and was relatively new :shrug: High lead count (25x normal amount) Definitely leads us to bearing failure on the big ends of the rods. As said in the video, the machine shop we dropped the block off too found no issues with the bores being out of round and tolerances weren't anything out of the norm from what they've seen. While the bearings didn't look overly torn up, the amount of material lost must have been enough to throw everything out of alignment and start knocking.

Looking back at the pistons, some of them did have small amounts of scuffing on the skirts so it's leading us to believe that we tore down the engine soon enough that nothing got significantly scuffed.

Moving forward, the new Manley H-Beams showed up, Darton Sleeves were dropped off to the machine shop (actually got word that they're already done installing them) and the Diamond Pistons are on order. We're hoping to get out the shop and check out the sleeve work here soon and drop off some of the parts we've been accumulating for the engine!
 

pro 5.0

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Good to hear that you won't have to chase any coolant leaking issues and that your intercooler is sealed, I am however puzzled that visually there wasn't anything that put up a red flag in your teardown. You stated that the machine shop measured the pistons and the bores and everything was in spec, what was the actual piston to wall clearance. The factory spec is .001 - .0023 if you had signs of piston skirt wear that would lead one to believe that the clearance was beyond the factory spec. The oil report stated that you have bearing wear yet the machine shop found the clearances to be within spec, the main bearing clearance is .001 - .0018 and the connecting rod clearance is .0011 - .0027 and connecting rod side clearance .0128 - .0197. These specs are from the Ford Oasis workshop manual and are for a 2019 GT which should be the same for a 2018, I know that you are moving on to bigger and better things but it would be great if you could share your actual measurements to shed some light for the community. Typically when bearing clearances increase oil pressure at idle will be lower never seen these types of issues or noises in the past on any other engines, if the motor is knocking or making weird sounds at teardown the issue shows up. I don't think that it has been mentioned but is it possible the sound could have been coming from the torque convertor or transmission.
 
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Det_Riot

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Good to hear that you won't have to chase any coolant leaking issues and that your intercooler is sealed, I am however puzzled that visually there wasn't anything that put up a red flag in your teardown. You stated that the machine shop measured the pistons and the bores and everything was in spec, what was the actual piston to wall clearance. The factory spec is .001 - .0023 if you had signs of piston skirt wear that would lead one to believe that the clearance was beyond the factory spec. The oil report stated that you have bearing wear yet the machine shop found the clearances to be within spec, the main bearing clearance is .001 - .0018 and the connecting rod clearance is .0011 - .0027 and connecting rod side clearance .0128 - .0197. These specs are from the Ford Oasis workshop manual and are for a 2019 GT which should be the same for a 2018, I know that you are moving on to bigger and better things but it would be great if you could share your actual measurements to shed some light for the community. Typically when bearing clearances increase oil pressure at idle will be lower never seen these types of issues or noises in the past on any other engines, if the motor is knocking or making weird sounds at teardown the issue shows up. I don't think that it has been mentioned but is it possible the sound could have been coming from the torque convertor or transmission.
To be completely transparent (because what does advantage is it to me to lie about anything) I'm not entirely sure what the machine shop checked since her dad set all of that up. We're planning on heading out there sometime in the next day or so to grab the block since the sleeves are installed so hopefully I can get some meaningful information from them. Those spec numbers are fantastic numbers to know though. I'm hoping to actually spend some time running through those numbers and seeing what we can find. The fact that nothing was glaring was a bit concerning, and definitely has had us scratching our heads of if it could have just been an issue in the trans/tc but at this point we won't know until it's back together.
 

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im curious as to how the sai li fel system works and what its limitations are? i've been considering either this sai li set up or the JN2NING fore triple pump setup that he offers with the fore hat.
Works great on 11-17 cars. If you are 18+, you MUST upgrade the rails, period. The factory rail will not sustain adequate port rail pressure to the port injectors which will cause a lean condition. My logs and first hand knowledge demonstrate this. Install high flow rails OR add a secondary port rail feed to the factory rail (this is what i did) and you will be good with the SLR system.



OP.. oil analysis shows everything within spec (averages) OTHER than Boron and Lead. Like you said, probably bearing wear. Why? Anyones guess but i agree with the knock comments made earlier in the thread.

Was this car exclusively on e85?
 

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Works great on 11-17 cars. If you are 18+, you MUST upgrade the rails, period. The factory rail will not sustain adequate port rail pressure to the port injectors which will cause a lean condition. My logs and first hand knowledge demonstrate this. Install high flow rails OR add a secondary port rail feed to the factory rail (this is what i did) and you will be good with the SLR system.



OP.. oil analysis shows everything within spec (averages) OTHER than Boron and Lead. Like you said, probably bearing wear. Why? Anyones guess but i agree with the knock comments made earlier in the thread.

Was this car exclusively on e85?
And to add to that, Sai Li just released his own 18+ fuel rails to go with his fuel system. Fortunately though in the case of the gen 5 whipple, improved fuel rails are included.
 
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Det_Riot

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Works great on 11-17 cars. If you are 18+, you MUST upgrade the rails, period. The factory rail will not sustain adequate port rail pressure to the port injectors which will cause a lean condition. My logs and first hand knowledge demonstrate this. Install high flow rails OR add a secondary port rail feed to the factory rail (this is what i did) and you will be good with the SLR system.



OP.. oil analysis shows everything within spec (averages) OTHER than Boron and Lead. Like you said, probably bearing wear. Why? Anyones guess but i agree with the knock comments made earlier in the thread.

Was this car exclusively on e85?
The car has only been on e85 for roughly 1000 miles, even that might be high. We’ve been very diligent checking ethanol content so I know the cars never seen below what you can eyeball as about 82%. With the whipple, the car saw very mild street tuning (10 miles max) and no wide open pulls since her dad wanted to tune it on c85 since he didn’t stock up over winter on summer blend as he normally does.
 

gimmie11s

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So weird. If that’s the case it’s hard to imagine the car detonating.

Strange for sure.
 

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just from looking at everything you have posted, and the oil report..are you sure the supercharger wasn't making the noise rather than the engine?? there's really nothing that would make the clatter you describe from the pics. perhaps the rotors in the supercharger are screwed
 

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Det_Riot

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just from looking at everything you have posted, and the oil report..are you sure the supercharger wasn't making the noise rather than the engine?? there's really nothing that would make the clatter you describe from the pics. perhaps the rotors in the supercharger are screwed
The noise didn't go away when we pulled the belt off lol
 

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Good to hear that you won't have to chase any coolant leaking issues and that your intercooler is sealed, I am however puzzled that visually there wasn't anything that put up a red flag in your teardown. You stated that the machine shop measured the pistons and the bores and everything was in spec, what was the actual piston to wall clearance. The factory spec is .001 - .0023 if you had signs of piston skirt wear that would lead one to believe that the clearance was beyond the factory spec. The oil report stated that you have bearing wear yet the machine shop found the clearances to be within spec, the main bearing clearance is .001 - .0018 and the connecting rod clearance is .0011 - .0027 and connecting rod side clearance .0128 - .0197. These specs are from the Ford Oasis workshop manual and are for a 2019 GT which should be the same for a 2018, I know that you are moving on to bigger and better things but it would be great if you could share your actual measurements to shed some light for the community. Typically when bearing clearances increase oil pressure at idle will be lower never seen these types of issues or noises in the past on any other engines, if the motor is knocking or making weird sounds at teardown the issue shows up. I don't think that it has been mentioned but is it possible the sound could have been coming from the torque convertor or transmission.
Im with this guy and have heard tc and transmissions make knocking noises.I would check the tc and flexplate out very well before puttijg it back together.
 
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Well nothing overly exciting for the weekly update. Ended up getting most of the interior out of the donor car (Yay for me), Manley rods have been in, Diamond got our order together for their new '18 Pistons, and Darton Sleeves are installed on the block. Dropped off the rods and pistons to get the rotating assembly balanced and sleeves final machined. Also got our new long tubes from LTH in! Super amped to see what kind of sound they produce with the venturi neck down before the collectors!

 

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Are the long tubes from LTH stainless steel?
 
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Det_Riot

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