2018 Mustang vs. Nissan Leaf

[shogun32]

The IC doesn't help absolute power output per se, it helps *maintain* power during heavy (typically track) use. Mine has a Wagner race unit on it and IAT is consistently 5-8F hotter than ambient. The factory IC is just weak.

It was super fast for sure, but the suspension was too stiff.

it definitely is.
Scout the area near both dealerships beforehand and find some good roads if you can. Roads with good corners, sightlines and varied surfaces both good and bad. And drive them in your CX5 so you're familiar with. Also ask the sales guy if he'll let you have the car for an hour or two so you can drive the wife/fam as part of your eval. Unless you come off as a punk kid out for a joy-ride they shouldn't give you any grief over it. You may need to sign a paper regarding damage liability.

As to desired options, the Ford speakers and 'fancy' audio isn't worth a damn if you read the threads here on that. Electronic dash can be retrofitted without too much work but is also not cheap. Ford NAV isn't bad but the voice response is hit or miss. Android Auto and google maps does a much better job anyway.

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[Matti777]

...However, back in 15 we rented a Mustang Convertible and did drove down the Pacific Coast Highway and we both loved the trip, so I am going to try to work that angle as well as I can.

I was shopping for a newer used car and looked at and considered many cars including the BMW M235/240, Audi S5 (V8 and newer V6), MB C43, Golf R, etc. I wanted to buy a '16 M240 and a '16 S5 but couldn't pull the trigger for various reasons. They were mid to high '30s ($$$Cdn) and had no warranty left. My wife and I drove a rental Mustang EB Convertible in Kauai and I ended up with a GT coupe because we both like it but I wanted a V8 not that the EB was slow. There were great deals on new Mustangs so mine was only a little more than a used S5 and less than the used MB C43s. and a new Golf R (which was stupid expensive). None of their engines were as pleasing as the Coyote. Note that all of the other cars take premium fuel and the Mustang GTs highway mileage is stunning IMHO so that was a consideration too as I plan on using it as a commuter when and if I go back to the office which is a 120km round trip.

 

[Balr14]

I don't know anyone who bought a V8 and wished they had bought a turbo 4 instead.... for any brand of car.

 

[Clover]

I was shopping for a newer used car and looked at and considered many cars including the BMW M235/240, Audi S5 (V8 and newer V6), MB C43, Golf R, etc. I wanted to buy a '16 M240 and a '16 S5 but couldn't pull the trigger for various reasons. They were mid to high '30s ($$$Cdn) and had no warranty left. My wife and I drove a rental Mustang EB Convertible in Kauai and I ended up with a GT coupe because we both like it but I wanted a V8 not that the EB was slow. There were great deals on new Mustangs so mine was only a little more than a used S5 and less than the used MB C43s. and a new Golf R (which was stupid expensive). None of their engines were as pleasing as the Coyote. Note that all of the other cars take premium fuel and the Mustang GTs highway mileage is stunning IMHO so that was a consideration too as I plan on using it as a commuter when and if I go back to the office which is a 120km round trip.

You mind sharing what a great deal was or a ballpark. I keep seeing references to great deals in the past but I'm not really sure what is possible. Right now, there seem to be some leftover New 19 or less desirable 20 EB packages with $6K - $8K discounts but nothing near that on the GTs. At least that I have come across to this point. There is one new 19 Bullet still available aroundish me that is only a few grand off and it has been listed online for over 600 days now. I am guessing the GTs sell better and they don't need to discount them as much but when you see a $7K discount on the cheap car and only a $2K discount on the more expensive models, it kind of leaves you feeling like you are not getting a good deal on the GT.

I noticed the CPO GT I was thinking of test driving was a former fleet vehicle and possible a rental. While I know that means they probably did all the maintenance, I worry that some people don't treat rentals very well. I'm guessing there could have been some extended burnouts, maybe even some neutral drops. Who knows but I'm not sure I that is the path for me. I guess if the car was really abused, things would brake before the end of the CPO warranty period and then that would be covered. I have never done a CPO car before and have read that they very by manufacture. How is Fords CPO coverage? Would they cover the A10 or the motor if it goes or would they try to say it was abused or something like that?

 

[Matti777]

I got a base GT with the 301A 10 speed for around $7k (Cdn$$) under MSRP cash price. I can't remember the exact numbers. That was in May. I don't know what deals are around now.

 

[Clover]

Well... my wife is now annoyed with me, but not for the reason I was expecting. I told her I wanted to go test drive some cars this weekend and tried to go into maybe an EB Mustang or a GTI and how they are both somewhat particle. I was planning on going into a few different arguments to try to shore up support from her but she just stopped me and told me I was being an idiot again. She asked a basic question, "Why are we getting another car that is not what you really want? If your getting something else, it better be what you actually want."

I am going to look into things more and I'm guessing I will wait until I can find specifically what I would like. I guess that means I am going to need to pin down exactly what that is. At the moment, I am thinking an 18+ GT Premium auto with active exhaust, probably in dark gray with alcantera interior and 3.55 rear gears.

 

[ice445]

Well... my wife is now annoyed with me, but not for the reason I was expecting. I told her I wanted to go test drive some cars this weekend and tried to go into maybe and EB Mustang or a GTI and see how they feel and they they are both somewhat particle. I was planning on go into a few different arguments to try to shore up support from her but she just stopped me and told me I was being an idiot again. She asked a basic question, "Why are we getting another car that is not what you really want? If your getting something else, it better be what I actually want"

I am going to look into things more and I guessing wait until I can find specifically what I would like. I guess that means I am going to need to pin down exactly what. At the moment, I am thinking an 18+ GT Premium auto with active exhaust, probably in dark gray with alcantera interior and 3.55 rear gears.

Well, she's not wrong. Buy once, cry once, as they say. Definitely test drive that GT, youll love it. Also test drive the Golf R, you'll love it but for different reasons. Then pick whatever fits your lifestyle better.

 

[shogun32]

test drive != intent to buy. 20 minutes spent in the EB/GTI and you may well cross them off the list once you hop into the GT for a spin. Only way to know. Or be like me and buy 3 cars, drive them for a bit over a year and then sell them. Trust me, not a way to make money. Especially when you mod them heavily.

 

[Clover]

Well, the CPO GT was sold before I got to the dealership today and now I am trying to find a dealership that has both a EB and GT optioned similar to what I am looking for test drives. Not really finding that close by, so I think I am going to end up testing a EB with the standard suspension and a GT equipped with the PP and Magnaride. I was not planning on tracking this car and the PP and Magnaride are super expensive, but I guess we will see how that all feels. I would like the magnaride, I just wish I could get them without the PP. The EB will be a standard suspension, so I guess I can get some feel for that, but I wish I could test drive the standard setup with the V8 as I am sure it will feel different. The GT I am going to look at seems to have every option which sure brakes the budget.

 

[jtmat]

Well, the CPO GT was sold before I got to the dealership today and now I am trying to find a dealership that has both a EB and GT optioned similar to what I am looking for test drives. Not really finding that close by, so I think I am going to end up testing a EB with the standard suspension and a GT equipped with the PP and Magnaride. I was not planning on tracking this car and the PP and Magnaride are super expensive, but I guess we will see how that all feels. I would like the magnaride, I just wish I could get them without the PP. The EB will be a standard suspension, so I guess I can get some feel for that, but I wish I could test drive the standard setup with the V8 as I am sure it will feel different. The GT I am going to look at seems to have every option which sure brakes the budget.

Couple of comments:

1. Leaf is not dead.. can you keep it and wait until what you want becomes available? If there is not a rush, don't rush. Plus a bit of time to "sleep on" the idea of what you really want.

2. How about keep the leaf and put the $15k into the Shelby. How much further along could that get you? I'll understand if it is about the journey and not about the destination. :-)

3. If you are embarrassed by the Leaf, you won't feel any better once you get an EB. Trust me... been there. Part of the fun of Mustang ownership, IMO, is going to car meets and farting around. Must have a thick skin with the EB... hear things like "it sounds tiny", "I did not hear you pull up", "your car sounds like shit", "where is the engine", "half your engine is missing", "[pointing at engine and laughing]", "I'd buy one of those for my wife", "that is a car for a girl", etc. etc... ha ha ha.... and don't think you will cut the muffler off and it will sound better. Go read those threads if you want... they lie. I did that -- It will still sound like crap. Sorry... I'm not against EB Mustangs... long as you know what you are getting into!

 

[shogun32]

Must have a thick skin with the EB... hear things like "it sounds tiny", "I did not hear you pull up", "your car sounds like shit", "where is the engine", "half your engine is missing", "[pointing at engine and laughing]", "I'd buy one of those for my wife", "that is a car for a girl", etc. etc.

The OP lives where real, hardy mountain men abound, not DC Metro where needle dicks need to strut their bravado by waving their 5.0 johnsons around. You need better friends and hangouts, just say'in...

Today I spied a 'neighbor' in her new, black HPP+Handling car. Can't say I've run across too many Persian women in headdress sans veil clearly loving their new car. And she wants to learn how to ride a motorcycle too. The lady likes speed apparently.

The Magneride is nice to have but as you've discovered it comes with a further $5000 upcharge. You can get more than capable suspension for a grand in the form of some springs and Bilsteins or FP Race shocks. If you never really intend to frequent road courses, the non-PP setup is just fine as far as the non-suspension parts go.

 

[jtmat]

The OP lives where real, hardy mountain men abound, not DC Metro where needle dicks need to strut their bravado by waving their 5.0 johnsons around. You need better friends and hangouts, just say'in...

Thank you for your moral support... I agree, we don't need those type of comments at car meets. Yes, it happened at PA, MD, VA, NC, and SC meets... little comments here and there over the years.

Not sure if calling all Mustang owners in those states "needle dicks" is appropriate... but the comments they made were not cool. I never made friends at those meets so maybe that was were I went wrong. I like hanging out with women during my time off work so making friends with random guys at Mustang meets is not my thing. No, I don't go to those meets any longer so I agree with you there... I did upgrade my hangout spots... well, until COV... you know what.

Anyway... thanks... next time I see GT owner on the forum talking down on an EB owner, I'm going to point that needle dick to your post.

 

[Balr14]

Well... my wife is now annoyed with me, but not for the reason I was expecting. I told her I wanted to go test drive some cars this weekend and tried to go into maybe and EB Mustang or a GTI and see how they feel and they they are both somewhat particle. I was planning on going into a few different arguments to try to shore up support from her but she just stopped me and told me I was being an idiot again. She asked a basic question, "Why are we getting another car that is not what you really want? If your getting something else, it better be what you actually want"

I can really relate. Wives have a way of doing that. Wait until she sees how much the car I really want costs!

 

[shogun32]

I did upgrade my hangout spots... well, until COV... you know what.

Sundays 0700-0930. 24560 Dulles Landing Dr Unit 110, Dulles, VA 20166
It's actually a well attended meetup with all kinds of fancy and ghetto cars that roll in. There's generally 10-20 mustangs there. I'd estimate an easy 150+ cars.

 

[Clover]

Started off the test drives today and a pretty much fully loaded up 2020 GT Premium with the 10 speed auto that the dealer had gotten in this month. First off, my sales rep started it up with me outside to hear the different exhaust modes. A wise move as it both sounds freaking fantastic and he got to show how my wife would appreciate it. The seats were very comfortable for me and I got the air conditioned seats going right away. Never had AC seats before so I was looking forward to this and it was great. I wish they were a bit more powerful but I would probably say that no matter how powerful they made them. The seating position felt a bit high but visibility was really good. Before heading out I tried going through the different drive modes and learned you really have to give it time to change between each mode before you move the switch again. I hit it a few times quickly at first and it just seemed to bog down. After a couple seconds, it finally changed the gauge screen, then slowly cycled through the modes for the multiple clicks I had made earlier. Not too big a deal really, just give it a second or two between modes and it works fine. I'll probably skip the new digital gauges, not really worth $2,200 to me right now.

Started out in the Sport driving mode and the sport mode on the auto. Made it out of the parking lot nice and gentle and everything seemed okay. As I tried accelerating away around the corner from a roll and I got nothing for about two seconds. My foot is pretty far into it because nothing is really happening and then bang, it slams into gear and the engine revs like hell for about half a second and then it upshifts to some super high gear. Granted, I did back out of it when she took off, but that was not at all what I was looking for. In the higher gear everything is sane again and I chalk it up to me giving the transmission mixed signals with the throttle. Start rolling away from the light again and it started off fine, then went unresponsive on me when it wanted to upshift for about a second, then another hard shift, quickly followed by another. I pull of the mane street at this point onto side streets and it is still constant upshifting and downshifting and I was frankly baffled. I have read many good things about this transmission and how quickly if shifts and how it is able to get into the gear to stay in the power band etc. I then used the paddles to use manual shifting thinking that would fix it. Nope, still dead for the first second or a bit more of throttle. I also quickly got confused on what gear I was in but something was still wrong. In other cars with paddle shifters that I have driven in the past, after you use the paddle to downshift it will go back into auto mode after 5 seconds or when you come to a complete stop. Did not happen in the Mustang and I could not figure out how to get it back into auto short of going to park and then back to auto with the shifter. I'm sure there is a better way but I'm too dumb to figure it out. Back in auto, the transmission continued to be all over the place and kill throttle response like nothing I have ever driven before. I was planning to drive further on the test drive but I just spun around and headed right back to the dealer. Made it back completely frustrated and just thinking that 10 speeds it way too much, I don't communicate well with the transmission and we don't match, at all. I have read that the transmission learns from the driver and gets better over time. Well... I don't know what to say if you are an idiot like me...

Once I get back, I try explaining what was going on and the sales guy tells me he saw me leave the dealership and wondered what I was doing. He told me that it has to learn and that the car is brand new. He had a Raptor owner come back after they got their new truck and tell him the same thing and they reset the transmission and let it learn again and it was fine. At this point, I had written off the new auto as not for me and was ready to move on but the salesperson convinced me to try the EB they had with the auto. Glad he did.

Taking off in the base 2020 EB auto, and Thank you Thank you, Thank you!, no crazy transmission. I was totally ready to walk away and dismiss the transmission after the test drive in the GT. The EB shifted smoothly and quickly and stayed in gear and felt like and auto transmission frankly. Maybe the GTs transmission really did just need to do some learning, but I suspect something was wrong with it from the factory and I think I may have been the first to drive it.

With the transmission behaving, I was actually able to pay attention to what the car was doing and how it felt to drive and I had a lot of fun in the EB. I was really impressed. Maybe it was coming off the low, but I really liked the EB Mustang and thought it was great. It felt lighter then I was expecting and little turbo lag followed by the power building is fun. It absorbed a pretty beat up road well and was rather comfortable and quite. As I accelerated around turns, the weight really shifts around a bit and the back moves around a bit. That sort of bad, and if I read that in a review, I would think of it as a bad thing but really it was just fun. It reminds me of when I was younger and we would toss around cars because you could push things and slide a little but still be fairly in control. The tires made a bunch of noise but you weren't going very fast and it was kind of a soft limit. Stepping on the gas just pushed you small increments wider and taking the foot out of the throttle ended the slide, so it was kind of approachable and easy. The 2020 EB seemed nice and playful like that where I could really get on the gas and feel the weight move and the tires slide a bit without feeling like anything was going to bite my head off. I have not had that in a while. While I struggle to explain this, I think a lot of you probably know what I am trying to convey.

On the negative side, I wish is that the steering was a bit more heavy and I could feel the front tires as well as I felt the rear. The front seems a bit vague and and a bit floaty to me. The steering response is precise and accurate feeling, I just did not feel the weight really move down over the front and you don't get much feedback.

When it came to power, I am sure I am not alone in wanting more. Here is the thing though, I kind of always want more power and I tend to ruin things that way. My recent cars outside of the Leaf I could floor for a couple seconds before I was allegedly exceeding speed limits by a hair or two. The EB I was able to floor, and keep it floored for enough time to enjoy. The power comes on later then I was expecting, which I guess just means I need to keep the revs higher then I am accustomed too, but that was fun. There is some throttle lag and delay as it builds steam, but not too bad for a modern car. The sound was better then I was expecting. To be honest, I don't like how it sounds in video clips that I have listened to but it was deeper and rougher in person. Did it sound as good as the V8? No, but it sounds better then pretty much every four cylinder turbo I have heard. I actively dislike how most inline 4s sound, but I actually like the EB.

All together, I like the 2020 EB Mustang a lot and I guess it tops my list right now with an asterisks. That being that I think I need to try another GT and look into the 10 speed auto to make sure I am comfortable with it. How the GT behaved during the test drive worries me because I could not put up with that. I don't even really know what the car drove like or how the engine actually pulls with the V8. What do you all think?

As for the GTI, well that dealership was the typical slimly experience. Got a sales person who needed to tell me what I actually wanted. The GTI steered really well and was very controlled around turns. It just kind of goes where you point it, but not too fast. I was expecting more and the DSG that I thought was going to be great was nothing special. Upshifts were actually slow, though smooth. Downshifts seemed more like a DSG, but not upshifts. Throttle response was below average in my opinion and worse then the EB Mustang. Also not as much power and the power comes on way later then I thought. To be frank, it did not feel like a fast car to me. Good steering and nice cabin, but not as big as I expected, not as fast as I expected. I think it is really an entry level luxury car instead of something truly sporty. I was honest with the salesperson and told him that and he had me test drive a used 2017 with a manual and a Stage 1 APR tune. That tune sure makes a difference in the throttle response and adds noticeable power. The manual and tune make it much more of a hot hatch. If I were to go this rout, which I don't think I will, I would say a tune and a manual would be a must for that car to be fun. Still not wild, but fun.

Put it all together and I am really thinking of an EB. I had a great time driving it. Sure it was not crazy or particularly fast, but it made me feel like you could play with it in a way that I have not had in a car for a while. I'm not sure I have think enough skin though. I know that moment when people ask if it is a V8, I will feel I need to justify myself, which is BS. Don't know how much it would really bother me, but I know it would happen. I hope I don't make anyone else feel that way, I know I love a whole lot of cars and think there lots of great options for lots of different people. To be honest though, I do kind of want others approval of my cars. Silly as that is, it is true. I don't need to be the fastest, but I don't want to be a chump.

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