2018 GT vs 2016 Camaro - Track Times Compared w/Video

Discussion in 'Ford Mustang versus?' started by Teezlr, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. SolarFlare

    SolarFlare Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2015 CO GT
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Location:
    S. Fla
    Posts:
    1,904
    Likes Received:
    388
    Rating:
    100%
    1   0   0
    Blaqmole with the 12sec 6gen zl1 that thinks he owns the world is the biggest nutswinger I've seen in a while.
     
  2. nastang87xx

    nastang87xx Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2016 GT350 Track Pack
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Posts:
    4,274
    Likes Received:
    1,977
    0   0   0
    MagnEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERide adds almost no meaningful weight, it's maybe a few pounds overall difference increase vs traditional valved dampers.
     
  3. Baron95

    Baron95 Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2012 Mustang GT
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Location:
    CT
    Posts:
    193
    Likes Received:
    46
    0   0   0
    No it doesn't. For a Mustang with 526HP to be regularly turning slower lap times in magazine tests than a 455HP Camaro SS 1LE is quite disappointing.

    I think the Mustang GT PP2 will actually do better than the GT350 on some tracks. At least for a couple of laps.

    The GT350 is a special car with a great sounding engine. But it is a massive disappointment on a road circuit. It should be punching much higher than it is.
     
  4. thehunterooo

    thehunterooo Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2015 GT
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Location:
    Clermont, FL
    Posts:
    2,619
    Likes Received:
    611
    0   0   0
    The 1LE is a supercar I am not sure what Ford can do.
     
  5. Baron95

    Baron95 Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2012 Mustang GT
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Location:
    CT
    Posts:
    193
    Likes Received:
    46
    0   0   0
    Ford doesn't need to do anything. The Mustang is selling well and the plenty of people are paying over sticker for GT350s (specially Rs).

    The reality of it is that very few people care about road circuit performance.

    Those of us who do are disappointed. The other 99.9% are not.
     
  6. Trackaholic

    Trackaholic Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2003 350Z, 2016 GT350, 2018 Pacifica Hybrid
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Location:
    USA
    Posts:
    2,899
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    0   0   0
    A massive disappointment on a road circuit? :crazy: I beg to differ.

    I think the regular GT350 is limited mostly by tires and heavy wheels. My impression from various reviews is that the Goodyears on the 1LE are stickier than the MPSS. However, even with the stock alignment, tires, brakes, brake fluid, etc, the GT350 is pretty amazing on the track. Sure it won't grip like some other cars, but it really is a ton of fun.

    Certainly the GT350R, with the same chassis, is not a disappointment. And the differences between the R and regular GT350 are purely tires, wheels, and some subtle tuning. Not at all chassis related. And if you are going to argue that the GT350R is also a disappointment, then ....:paddle: :D

    I would not be surprised to see the GT PP2 go faster than a GT350 on certain tracks. It does have the PSC2's after all, which will really help in the corners. BTW, the GT PP2 will have the same chassis, so I maintain that the chassis isn't the issue with the S550. It's the intended performance envelope. Ford just does not care to have something like the 1LE (except for the GT350, and now maybe the PP2). Unfortunately the PP2 doesn't have coolers, so I'm not sure if it will do that well. Sort of a mixed message with that setup, a lot like the initial GT350 tech and base versions.

    -T
     
    valentinoamoro likes this.
  7. Trackaholic

    Trackaholic Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2003 350Z, 2016 GT350, 2018 Pacifica Hybrid
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Location:
    USA
    Posts:
    2,899
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    0   0   0
    Well, at least they have the FGT to compete with the 1LE.

    -T
     
  8. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2016 GT350
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Posts:
    6,004
    Likes Received:
    2,395
    0   0   0
    I haven't driven any magazines lately, but my GT350 has yet to disappoint me - especially on the road course. Edit: well - just don't mention coolers! The handling is terrific in my opinion.
     
  9. ALUSA

    ALUSA Well-Known Member

    First Name:
    AL
    Vehicle(s):
    2015 Mustang GTPP, 2017 Cadillac CTS 2.0T AWD
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Location:
    Plainfield, IL
    Posts:
    249
    Likes Received:
    40
    0   0   0
    Looks like Motortrend is coming up with Head2Head ss1le vs gt pp1!!! Someone should open a thread and ready the popcorn!
     
  10. Chameleon

    Chameleon Well-Known Member
    Gold Sponsor


    Vehicle(s):
    03' Cobra, 05' GT, 13' GT, 15' GT
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2014
    Location:
    Top of 6G
    Posts:
    11,507
    Likes Received:
    4,086
    Rating:
    100%
    20   0   0
    I'd rather see the pp2 comparison.
     
  11. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2016 GT350
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Posts:
    6,004
    Likes Received:
    2,395
    0   0   0
    I'd like to see a head 2 head with the GT350. Not sure why they haven't done it. According to some the performance is close. I believe with super sticky tires and stiff suspension the Camaro might be faster around some tracks, at least for a few laps.
     
  12. crs2879

    crs2879 Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2015 Mustang GT
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2016
    Location:
    AL
    Posts:
    572
    Likes Received:
    175
    0   0   0
    If sales were strictly about track numbers, Camaro would be blowing the Mustang away.....reality isn't only about track numbers. '15 Z/28s got great reviews, as a track car and turned great lap times....but every magazine said it was miserable as a DD car....so they languished on dealer lots, even with massive discounts. Maybe Ford realizes that building what sells, rather than strictly building for track numbers is a better business model.
     
  13. Baron95

    Baron95 Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2012 Mustang GT
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Location:
    CT
    Posts:
    193
    Likes Received:
    46
    0   0   0
    As I said before. I find no fault with Ford's strategy on the Mustang or GT350. GT350 is a wonderful car for Ford. Generated a ton of buzz, made dealers money with their mark ups, sounds in credible, etc.

    My comments are focused exclusively on road circuit performance. The same track/same driver data seem to indicate that the S550 GTPP turns times around the Camaro V61LE, the GT350 around the base SS, the GT350R around the 1LE. You can say it is the chassis or you can say it is the tuning. It is probably both.

    Clearly on the 2018 Mustang, Ford got preoccupied enough with the gap vs the Camaro that they sent a skunk works team to try to come up with something better, the PP2 which is not even available yet.

    The fact is that anyone can walk into a chevy dealer and buy a V6 1LE or SS 1LE with no markups, no limited production, no drama.

    To get comparable performance from Ford you need to deal with dealer markup BS on a 350 or "limited/future availability" of a PP2.

    Again. Exclusively for track performance it is not a good story for Ford. And I do want to buy a Mustang again (just sold my C7 Corvette Z51). But boy Ford is making it hard.
     
  14. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2016 GT350
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Posts:
    6,004
    Likes Received:
    2,395
    0   0   0
    Sounds like you want a Camaro to me. You should buy one! Have fun replacing those sticky tires. :cheers:
     
  15. JohnnyUtah

    JohnnyUtah Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    17 Camaro SS 1LE, 16 FLEX
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Location:
    CA
    Posts:
    304
    Likes Received:
    148
    0   0   0
    Not sure why the few laps comment. The cooling on the 1LE is perfectly suited for lapping for prolonged periods in the heat.
     
  16. Baron95

    Baron95 Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2012 Mustang GT
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Location:
    CT
    Posts:
    193
    Likes Received:
    46
    0   0   0
    If it only were that easy. I like change. I went Mustang GT->Vette->??? Now should be time to come back to Ford :)

    The perfect car for me is a Corvette Grand Sport. But that is like drive exactly what I have been driving for the past 3 years.

    As far as replacing tires, I replace tires 3-4 times a year. It is a non-event.

    I'd be bummed if I end up buying another Vette or its fatter causing the Camaro. The PP2 is coming very close to save me. Just need someone to confirm it will not overheat on track and close more of the gap to the Camaro 1LE.
     
  17. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2016 GT350
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Posts:
    6,004
    Likes Received:
    2,395
    0   0   0
    I was thinking about brakes, but it's just because I don't know. I'd be surprised if the Camaro brakes are as good as the GT350's.

    I don't get why you don't buy a GT350R if you like a relatively low powered car with good handling characteristics, have the money for a 'vette GS, are looking at Mustangs and want a change. And my advice was also going to be to not get so hung up on magazines. I seriously can't remember the last time I drove a magazine.

    Get off the couch and go drive the cars. In my opinion that's the only way to make the buying decision. Or if you want more than 526 HP wait for the GT500 rather than buying the GT PP2.
     
  18. Baron95

    Baron95 Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2012 Mustang GT
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Location:
    CT
    Posts:
    193
    Likes Received:
    46
    0   0   0
    #58 Baron95, Nov 10, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
    Dude. I'm an HPDE driving instructor. I have driven and instructed in all these cars on track, except of course the 2018 GT PP1/PP2.

    The Vette Grand Sport and Camaro 1LE are just awesome on track. You don't need to do anything other than camber alignment and change brake pads.

    The GT350s sound awesome but had overheating issues on 2 out of 3 occasions and visibility over the fenders was not that good. I'd never pay the prices that dealers want for those things. Never. Not for a 3,800lbs car that I need to buy multiple packages to get the performance goodies.

    Now lets go back to talking about the 2018 Mustang GT PP2. My questions are:
    1 - Will they overhead on track without warranty destroying aftermarket coolers?
    2 - Will they be readily orderable and available, or will this be another GT350/Boss 302 drama with dealer mark ups and limited production?
    3 - Can I run a square setup with either the front or the back wheels on all 4 corners and an identical spare in the trunk?

    Positive answers to 1 and 2 and I'm buying it. 3 is nice to have.
     
  19. 1320'

    1320' Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2011 Avenger...sadly
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Location:
    Medford,Oregon
    Posts:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    0   0   0
    I thought overheating issues were just with the TechPack GT350's?
     
  20. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

    Vehicle(s):
    2016 GT350
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Posts:
    6,004
    Likes Received:
    2,395
    0   0   0
    I'm not trying to pick a fight here, just trying to understand your way of thinking. Not asking for your resume. :)

    As long as you stay away from the tech pack you shouldn't have issues with heat in a GT350. The 2018 GT PP2 will probably need coolers for tracking based on the info that Ford has sent out. Ford may offer coolers but they will still impact warranty, I assume.

    You should be able to get a GT350R for less than a GS Corvette. I don't know what you are talking about here. Is this why you are talking down the GT350s?

    So you think the GT350s fenders are difficult to see over, but you like the visibility from the Camaro? Very, very different from my experience. The 2018 GT PP2 will have better forward visibility than the Camaro, but not as good as the GT350. Since you either can't remember or are backwards on this, you may hate the GT PP2 forward visibility as far as I can tell.

    Why would you want to run a square setup? Don't you want the handling setup optimized by the factory? I thought tires weren't a big deal to you?
     
Loading...

Share This Page