2018-2020 Mustang GT fueling limits

[Stymee]

600-650 on DI/93 is fine, Anymore u need a bap

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[Brad1810r80]

I have Id1050x injectors and vmp boost a pump. Running e30 blend with no fuel pressure drop. Haven’t been on dyno but car 60-130 pretty good for a full weight pp1 premium heavy car. I would think this is north of 700whp. This is a ess supercharger.

 

[mangosmoothie]

I realize this is an old thread that got bumped, but I just made 623 on 91 with bone stock fuel system on a P1X on my 2019. I originally asked to add a BAP for safety. The shop said it wasn't needed, I would be octane/knock limited before I ran out of fuel. Palm beach tuned it so I guess it's ok...

I'll probably end up adding one for peace of mind. But won't hurt to look my logs over and see what's up.

 

[Zrussian13]

I realize this is an old thread that got bumped, but I just made 623 on 91 with bone stock fuel system on a P1X on my 2019. I originally asked to add a BAP for safety. The shop said it wasn't needed, I would be octane/knock limited before I ran out of fuel. Palm beach tuned it so I guess it's ok...

I'll probably end up adding one for peace of mind. But won't hurt to look my logs over and see what's up.

Stock injectors?

 

[mangosmoothie]

bone stock. This is a quote from cordes performance (shop that did the install) "Being you have a gen 3 coyote the stock system will support what this will make on 91 octane so no need for a fuel pump booster, injectors (in the port) or anything"

 

[Zrussian13]

bone stock. This is a quote from cordes performance (shop that did the install) "Being you have a gen 3 coyote the stock system will support what this will make on 91 octane so no need for a fuel pump booster, injectors (in the port) or anything"

Wow that's ballsy for a shop to state and stand behind. I'd love to see how hard those injectors are working at wot.

 

[mangosmoothie]

yeah I'ma take a look at that datalog. I don't think palm beach would have tuned it if it was dangerous but who knows. The shop has palm beach tune them and has done several this way...

Luckily most of my time is spent at 7000 feet DA so I'll be mid 500's most of the time, unless I pulley down

 

[mangosmoothie]

man I've been searching for like 2 hours now and I can't find anything.

I think it's established that NA guys are fine on E85 bone stock. ~600whp on 91 requires roughly the same amount of fuel as ~500 whp on E85 from the calculators I've played with (+/- 10%)

Procharger and beefcake say you need to do a BAP over ~600 wheel.

others have said they can do 91/93 to ~700 with just injectors in the port (if stock pump can't keep up with stock injectors, bigger injectors on the stock pump aren't going to help) palm beach's level 1 package claiming to support 625-675 whp just comes with port injectors.

This will be interesting to log. I'll post findings when I get around to it.

 

[WildHorse]

Some websites said the stock fuel system with DI and PI can support 700whp on 93.

Some say under 600whp without a BAP. Can someone elaborate for me?

see here as long as you know gal/hr from the fuel pump (without BAP) & total gal/hr from all the injectors, you'll get your answer:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/stock-15-17-fuel-pressure.167890/#post-3417490

 

[schmeky]

My tuner, whom I trust, indicated the 2018+ Mustangs can fuel up to 700 WHP with no BAP.

I have only added injectors (1050X) and I'm around 650 WHP with -0- fuel issues with 93 as verified by my datalogs.

 

[Zrussian13]

My tuner, whom I trust, indicated the 2018+ Mustangs can fuel up to 700 WHP with no BAP.

I have only added injectors (1050X) and I'm around 650 WHP with -0- fuel issues with 93 as verified by my datalogs.

I'd agree with you on this. I'm running dw95s plus a bap but had bap issues for a while and was told to stay out of boost until it was fixed even though all my initial tuning was done before the bap arrived. I went about 3-4 k miles with no bap and still drove it hard with no issues. My logs were identical with or without the bap. I'm also in the ballpark of 650whp.

 

[engineermike]

They might all be right. But first you have to understand how the gen3 lift pump is controlled. It has a fuel pressure sensor and the pump is on a pwm pid feedback control loop. Furthermore, since the pcm knows the actual fuel pressure, it modifies injector pulsewidth to compensate when the pressure drops.

So, if pressure drops, the pcm increases the pwm pulsewidth up to 100%. If at 100% duty cycle the commanded fuel pressure of 73 psi can’t be maintained, the pressure falls and the injector pulsewidth is extended. Keep in mind that on the stock car, port injectors only supply about 10% of the fuel at wot, so the pulsewidth has a long way to be extended before it hits a limit. The gdi pump, which usually does most of the heavy lifting, doesn’t need a ton of inlet pressure to keep doing its thing. Then there’s the throttle failsafe. I haven’t confirmed this on the gen3, but the ecoboost will close the throttle if it even thinks it doesn’t have enough fuel flow to maintain target a/f. It doesn’t even wait for the lean o2 signal to cut throttle. The programming appears to be there for that purpose.

So a conservative tuner might say that at wot your pump dc shouldn’t be over 90%, to account for possible plugging of the fuel filter or extreme weather conditions. Another might be fine with 100% as long as pressure doesn’t fall below x psi. Another might be fine as long as the port injectors don’t go above 90% duty cycle when the pressure falls. As long as the throttle cut is still active they’re all safe, but some are safer than others.

 

[engineermike]

That said, my personal experience was that running a 3.625 pulley on a Whipple, my dw400 lift pump was running at 100% duty cycle and pressure was dropping below 60 (target 73). I installed a bap and now it holds 73 at <100% duty cycle.

I’ve seen logs of cars running down to under 40 psi and the owner was none the wiser.

 

[WildHorse]

That said, my personal experience was that running a 3.625 pulley on a Whipple, my dw400 lift pump was running at 100% duty cycle and pressure was dropping below 60 (target 73). I installed a bap and now it holds 73 at <100% duty cycle.

I’ve seen logs of cars running down to under 40 psi and the owner was none the wiser.

100% what ? Injector duty cycle ?

 

[engineermike]

100% what ? Injector duty cycle ?

Sorry, lift pump duty cycle.

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