2018/19 Shelby GT500 Mustang Spotted! Twin Turbo V8 Powered? [UPDATED WITH VIDEO]

DrumReaper

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Sorry if my post was confusing... Yes, they would dump air in the plenum, but I do believe it would be feasible to add a smaller displacement SC to aid in spooling the TC and the two together boosting HP along with efficiency. That would be an impressive torque curve...

But, I wonder if the lower displacement of the SC would avoid heatsoak?... Ideas?





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thePill

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Sorry if my post was confusing... Yes, they would dump air in the plenum, but I do believe it would be feasible to add a smaller displacement SC to aid in spooling the TC and the two together boosting HP along with efficiency. That would be an impressive torque curve...

But, I wonder if the lower displacement of the SC would avoid heatsoak?... Ideas?
Completely avoid heatsoak in an FI V8? It has to happen eventually... unless they really open up the grill and hood...
 

flaps

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As far as I know, BOTH the turbos in either Twin or BiT configuration can be of Twin Scrolling design.

I do believe the Audi 4.0 and AMG is a Twin Scrolling BiTurbo however, I have heard them say "Twin Scrolling TURBOS". Both turbos feed a single plenum and isn't a traditional "Twin" system that feeds each side of a V or H engine independently (see Motorsport FGT vs EB FGT)...

...more than likely a little Twin Scroll turbo feeding a larger "main". Both feed all 8 cylinders through a single MAF/TB and Plenum... Intake would operate similar to a Strait 6 Twin Turbo (Nissan), no independent FI for each bank.
Why do you still keep repeating the same lies even after you've been proven wrong by several people? Twin Turbo and BiTurbo are the same thing. And Audi and AMG use two equally-sized twin-scroll turbos in parallel.
 

BmacIL

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Turbos aren't going to package guys, sorry to disappoint. They won't be able to meet Ford's minimum requirements for clearances. The only way would be nested in the Vee, and that's a massive tear up and not really feasible.

5.2 CPC and a blower.
 

Erik427

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Turbos aren't going to package guys, sorry to disappoint. They won't be able to meet Ford's minimum requirements for clearances. The only way would be nested in the Vee, and that's a massive tear up and not really feasible.

5.2 CPC and a blower.
I'm afraid this is very true. 90 degree V-8 leaves little room.
Maybe Ford will make a 5.8 based off the Voodoo...........
 

DrumReaper

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Turbos aren't going to package guys, sorry to disappoint. They won't be able to meet Ford's minimum requirements for clearances. The only way would be nested in the Vee, and that's a massive tear up and not really feasible.

5.2 CPC and a blower.
And it was said that Ford couldn't pull off a 5+-liter FPC... ok.:cheers:
 

thePill

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Why do you still keep repeating the same lies even after you've been proven wrong by several people? Twin Turbo and BiTurbo are the same thing. And Audi and AMG use two equally-sized twin-scroll turbos in parallel.
I'm sorry, that is not correct.

The Ford GT's Ecoboost system in IMSA is that of a true Twin (Parallel) Turbo. In this case, two exact same size turbos feed each cylinder bank (of a V, H or Boxster).

In the case of an Inline 6 (like Nissan), both turbos feed a single plenum, or what they called a Twin Turbo Intake...

Once a system feeds a single plenum, it becomes a BiTurbo (Staged or Sequential) like the production Ford GT will use. DO NOT confuse the three, they are very different.

A Twin is two exact turbos that drive each cylinder bank independently. Using two identical turbos, in a single TB/plenum is where the BiTurbo evolved. Then the third system, which saved weight, packaging and reduces heat. It would be TWO turbos, staged, one ahead of the other. A smaller one driving a larger one and still uses a single TB/plenum.

Understand, the Ford GT in Motorsport vs. the Production Ford GT EB3.5 is a HUGE difference. A TRUE TWIN TURBO has a throttle body and a duel intake. Do not let manufactuers fool you...

It will not be a Twin at all... it will be a Sequential or Staged BiTurbo feeding a single MAF/Throttle Body/Plenum. One or both of the turbos could be of Twin Scrolling design. The Audi uses two Twin Scroll Turbos...


The GT500 we get WILL NOT have independent turbos feeding each side. Not going to happen... in order to cut down of plumbing, a Sequential BiTurbo will be used. Will it be two turbos feeding a single TB like a Cobra Jet? I can say packaging and heat will be an issue... as will TURBO LAG.

I don't care what everyone has been calling it, A TWIN TURBO feeds each side of a V or Box INDEPENDENTLY. Once a that stops, it's merely a BiTurbo, Duel Turbo, Two Turbos, Double Turbos, X2 Turbos... whatever you wanna call it... It IS NOT a parallel Twin Turbo. That is a BIG difference in Production vs. Fantasy, the design itself.

Your not getting 150hp per Liter or 810hp WITHOUT two turbos. There is also very little room to package the plumbing required to run a Parralle system... period...


...and if it's not a Parralle system, it's a BiTurbo. Most likely a small turbo (low RPM) spooling a larger turbo (high RPM). The smaller turbo could be an Ecoboost Twin Scroll that is currently in play now. Any true twin would need independent heat exchangers as well as cold air intakes. Ram air? Maybe... but a Sequential system can scoop air into the existing setup, through a single CAI.

Major reason heat and packaging is an issue with this system. It needs to cool and feed each turbo independently. In order to save space, a similar Audi/AMG design will be used.
 

thePill

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Turbos aren't going to package guys, sorry to disappoint. They won't be able to meet Ford's minimum requirements for clearances. The only way would be nested in the Vee, and that's a massive tear up and not really feasible.

5.2 CPC and a blower.
There is no room for a parallel turbo like the Motorsport Ford GT (each turbo feeds 3 cylinders independently) or a Hybrid like the 2013 Cobra Jet. Each turbo requires its own heat exchanger and access to cool air via CAI. As you can see, it's twice the packaging.

However, like a TVS, a Sequential BiTurbo requires only one heat exchanger and access to cool air from one CAI.

Please understand, ALL these systems are considered Ecoboost. A single turbo, a single Twin scroll, a Parralle Twin like the FGT, a Parralle Twin like the Cobra Jet and a Sequential BiTurbo. All encompassed under Ecoboost. There is a very large difference between the two.
 

z06psi

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A V-6 would allow room for the downpipes from the V. Also the way flat exhaust is progressing it might not be a bad fit at all. I know Audi uses them in the S6/7 platform.
 

thePill

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Why do you still keep repeating the same lies even after you've been proven wrong by several people? Twin Turbo and BiTurbo are the same thing. And Audi and AMG use two equally-sized twin-scroll turbos in parallel.
Do me a HUGE favor. Google the "Scorpion" Turbo design that Ford has. Now, I believe the "Predator" will have TWO turbos (small>large). The smaller primary turbo will be fed by both sides of the exhaust, wrapping up, and that is where they got the Scorpion. Instead of using two turbos in the valley, one feeding each side like BMW, the Predator will use a compound, in the valley, BiTurbo system. I can't call it a twin because it is in no way a twin at all.

One intake, two turbos in sequence, both sides of exhaust feed the smaller, primary turbo, which feeds the larger turbo, which feeds a single intake, which feeds all 8...

BMW 4.4 and FGT is the same except it uses two exchangers, two intakes...

Cobra Jet, two turbos, one intake, two exchangers...


I just can't see them packaging either the Cobra Jet version or the Ford GT's version. It will be an In the Valley, BiTurbo leeching exhaust gas similar to the BMW's 4.4 V8. However, the two turbos will feed all 8 cylinders and be cooled by a single, large exchanger. There is simply not enough room for a complex system.
 

thePill

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Ecobeast = Gas Powered, Direct Injected/Port Direct BiTurbo that uses a Scorpion style, In the Valley Turbo. This engine is intended for the upcoming concept Truck/SUV line.

Predator = A slightly higher output version of the Ecobeast using higher quality internals.

Possibly that the Ecobeast is a Single Twin Scoll Scorpion while the Predator uses a Compound Scorpion BiTurbo, very similar to the current Powerstoke 6.7. Chances are, the lead turbo will be of Twin Scrolling nature.

It will NOT use a Twin Turbo like the Ford GT, nor a BiT Parralle like the Cobra Jet, nor an In the Valley Twin like the BMW 4.4, or like the AMG BiTurbo...

It will be of Scorpion, Compound, design with Voodoo quality internals.

Very neat if absolutely true...
 

thePill

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Whatever the GT500 is, my money's on the Voodoo block in crossplane confguration with twin-turbos feeling a large ass MAF and plenum.

Question for the smart engine guys here... May be a really dumb question but what's the possibility of a twin-scroll being fed by a large turbo?
I need to verify but, the "smaller" twin scrolling turbo feeding a larger turbo? It's a low pressure, twin scrolling turbo feeding a high pressure turbo. The "twin scroll" is how the first, low pressure turbo collects exhaust gases. The high pressure turbo is then spooled but the low pressure twin scroll turbo... It's a gas Powerstoke, made possible with the addition of PDI/DI in place of the Runners.



...but maybe thePill is just insane... but they need to make 800 somehow and a Supercharger, Twin or Parallel CJ Turbo just can't do it. The SC Coyote is maybe 650hp, a Twin Turbo or Cobra Jet Turbo won't fit... The Scorpion design Compound/Sequential Turbo is the only tech left. It's just so happens to be amazing in Diesel form...
 

thePill

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FYI, Valley Turbos can fit under the current hood shelf. But I expect a lowered GT350 hood w/ a bulging, "Unicorn Horn" (Eleanor joke?). I guess in reality, the bulge is not higher than the GT's. The lowered area around the heat extractor/horn.


I want to see this car now... I kinda have an idea where they are going. Also larger, swallowing ducts in the fascia. The fangs of the GT500 are angled in, making the duct work appear much larger. Think the concept art long ago, the one Twin Turbo loved. The "Superman" grill area that we haven't seen yet... Blackout or reduced bumper cover size to promote more airflow (zl1 did this, bumblebee has a blackout bumper).




All speculation, absolutely nothing is true.
 

BmacIL

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A parallel turbo setup does not require two heat exchangers, you simply need two inlets and one outlet. The EB V6 engines are setup exactly like this.

Go try measuring the space between the header inlet flange and the closest hard points. You're not fitting a manifold, turbo and piping in there and still meeting minimum package requirements for engine roll (particularly for very hot components...their minimums are higher). It's not a fair comparison with Ford doing the voodoo, as that takes up the same package space as the coyote. The challenge of combating the significant shaking forces is a good one, but simply requires a lot of development time. They're not doing new front-end sheet metal and structure to package this kind of stuff...simply too expensive. Doing new fenders and hood for the GT350 is easy. Those have little impact on crash test results and are relatively cheap as far as tooling is concerned.
 

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