2015 GT PP vs. 2011 GT500 w/SVT PP

[mustang_guy]

Thanks, the article you linked to states that the Coyote was essentially a clean sheet of paper whereas the the 5.8 was just an extension of pre-existing engine tech...which means, as I stated, the Coyote is a newer tech motor...not sure how you don't comprehend that...oh yeah...your reading comprehension is subpar...here's the excerpt:

Compared to the now familiar Coyote 5.0, which was essentially a clean-sheet-of-paper design that owed next to nothing to the previous 4.6 Three-Valve starting point, it's tempting to say the 5.8 is a stretched 5.4 with the boost turned up. In fact, when described in overview, the 5.8 is indistinguishable from the 5.4 starting point. Like the 5.4, the 5.8 is an all-aluminum V-8 with double overhead camshafts, four valves per cylinder, a belt-driven supercharger, and air-to-water charge cooling. Like the 5.4, the 5.8 does not use variable cam timing, much less twin independent cam timing, nor does it use direct fuel injection. Indeed, the 5.8 does use the same fundamental architecture of the 5.4, meaning basics such as the bore spacing, nominal deck height, pan rail width, cylinder head design, and so on, are identical.

However, scratch just below the surface of the basic architecture and an amazing number of details differ. It's those details that make up this story, and they are there to support four major changes: greater displacement, significantly higher boost, piston oil squirters, and higher rpm.

Point is technologically speaking, it was not new like the Coyote motor was at the time.



No, clearly you didn't get the idea since you told me to go research Griggs



I'd venture to guess that most Mustang owners would classify your scenario as an extreme one.

I know you couldn't care less because you don't even understand the concept...I'm not talking about resale value genius...Feel free to google the Law of diminishing marginal gain...in this context it means that with each dollar you spend you will see less return for it. It's a pretty basic principal of the universe, but clearly you're unable to apply it to automotive.



So now you're lowering your HP number to sound more in line with normality...Shelby's handle 600+ beautifully.



Okay, so once again, next time you're at an event, let the Shelby owners know that their car is a piece of crap, and be sure to use that specific phrasing you recklessly threw around here. Be sure to report back here on their reaction.



Your points that you know more than me about the GT500 have been supported by the following:

1. Saying I have zero experience with them (which is false)
2. Speculating that you know more GT500 owners than I do (which probably isn't true and in any case proves nothing)

Your points that the GT500 is "a piece of crap" have been supported by the following:

1. A single perspective of an extreme case scenario in which the Coyote costs less to obtain a certain HP level beyond what 99% of owners will do
2. The OEM rods break at around 800whp

In any case, you sold a 2014 Shelby for a Mustang GT...no punchline needed...

:headbonk:

im aware of what it states ive read it before. But it also states the 5.8 is its own new motor. Stop cherry picking.

However, scratch just below the surface of the basic architecture and an amazing number of details differ. It's those details that make up this story, and they are there to support four major changes: greater displacement, significantly higher boost, piston oil squirters, and higher rpm.
So the 5.8 is it's own engine. Few components interchange between a 5.8 and a 5.4. However, even if they physically bolt on, the power of the 5.8 is in a different league than the 5.4. As a quick measure of that, the Condor 5.4 runs 9 pounds of supercharger boost; the Trinity 5.8 runs 15 pounds.

I told you to research it yes. I understand. So because I didn't read your whole mod list im suddenly wrong that griggs racing mustangs destroy modded to piss vettes? Oh okay. Why do I need to tell them again I think the car is crap? It is crap for what they charge. Again last time I said it not many of them disagreed with my thoughts on the car. As so have some others here that have owned them and, would you look at that sold it for a s550! Im not lowering anything, high performance cars are coming with more and more power. The fact they thought those rods were good enough is ridiculous. They should have been an all new rod. You've yet to acknowledge that or admit it. You must not read my entire posts. Ill say it ONE last time for you. We all were onto talking about the 5.8 gt500s. I had just made a post about it. You made your post, not knowing you were talking about the 5.4s, I said you don't know anything about gt500s. gt500s being the 5.8s because that's what was being discussed, not gt500s as a whole. You assumed I meant as a whole. I said that I apologize I thought you were talking about 5.8s like the rest of us. But you clearly don't know much about the 5.8s. Ive apologized twice now. I wont do it again. it does prove nothing, but id still be willing to wager a lot of money that I do know more of them. Yup I sold it to order a 2016, shortly. I sure did. Quite a few others have sold it for the s550. If that doesn't tell you something, you're delusional. I get it, youre a gt500 fanboy. Im really done doing this with you though, you keep saying that same stuff, I keep telling you the same stuff back, rinse & repeat. For whatever reason you cant move onto any other points about how mighty the gt500 is. You'll just repeat the same stuff and chose to ignore my info and argue the same petty points. Yeah im done with that. :lol:If you still need to argue, just reread my posts and argue with yourself. But have a good weekend though. No sarcasm there.

Sponsored

 

[MrBillton]

Well aware that it's a new motor, the detail at hand was whether it was technologically newer than the Coyote, it was not. Once again, just an extended application of previously used tech. For some reason, you disagreed with this.

But it also states the 5.8 is its own new motor. Stop cherry picking.

No, you're wrong because you've made several assumptions and asinine comments regarding my knowledge and experience with Shelbys that are false, yet you kept doing it.

I told you to research it yes. I understand. So because I didn't read your whole mod list im suddenly wrong that griggs racing mustangs destroy modded to piss vettes? Oh okay.

Shoulda, woulda, it's about cost to benefit. No need for them to use stronger rods...most people don't need them and it would just inflate the price of the car...surely you understand the balance in designing a car to sell in mass quantity.

and once again, no OEM makes an engine strong enough to handle the power levels you are talking about...but the Shelby is a piece of crap for it.

They should have been an all new rod. You've yet to acknowledge that or admit it.

As the 5.4 is very similar to the 5.8, your assertion that it is crap, extends to all modern GT500s.

And so you admit you made an assumption in your first post (which comes as no surprise since you've made several since)...in doing so you were incredibly abrasive about it and for some reason felt the need to make it a pissing contest. You're still feeling the need to assert you know more GT500 owners than me.

I do appreciate your acknowledgement of that assumption though.

You made your post, not knowing you were talking about the 5.4s, I said you don't know anything about gt500s. gt500s being the 5.8s because that's what was being discussed, not gt500s as a whole. You assumed I meant as a whole. I said that I apologize I thought you were talking about 5.8s like the rest of us. But you clearly don't know much about the 5.8s. Ive apologized twice now. I wont do it again. it does prove nothing, but id still be willing to wager a lot of money that I do know more of them.

"Quite a few" is relative...consider you are on a 6G forum so it won't be a good barometer of whether it's common.

Actually, I'm not a GT500 fanboy at all, or a fanboy for anything for that matter. I just had this same argument a couple weeks ago with a buddy comparing these two motors, except he was arguing for the Shelby side. I was quick to correct him by educating him on how the Coyote is a more efficient and advanced motor and thus able to make equal power on less boost.

But, it's just as easy for me to call you an S550 fanboy.

Yup I sold it to order a 2016, shortly. I sure did. Quite a few others have sold it for the s550. If that doesn't tell you something, you're delusional. I get it, youre a gt500 fanboy.

Once again, all the info you are presenting is either a false assumption about me, or an edge case regarding a Shelby. I don't disagree that it can be called overpriced if only looking at it from a $ to Performance ratio...nor do I disagree that a Coyote could make 1000whp for cheaper. Duh...no one needed you to tell us that.

Just trying to let you know that the $ to performance ratio is not the only metric of car buying, and likewise, extreme motor work/1000hp builds are not the norm, and likely not the intent of the OP. Yet for some reason they remain the entire crux of your argument on why the Shelby is crap.

You accuse me of arguing the same petty points (of which there are several) yet you argue the same petty point (of which there is one) from a same, tired perspective...

You'll just repeat the same stuff and chose to ignore my info and argue the same petty points. Yeah im done with that. :lol:If you still need to argue, just reread my posts and argue with yourself. But have a good weekend though. No sarcasm there.

 

[DiMaio90]

MrBilton, you're wasting your time. Your obviously too intelligent for this guy. Stop embarrassing him please. I'm starting to feel bad for him.

 

[Brent302]

Zomgoodness what happened here lol

 

[Poppacapp]

To end the debate:

GT = Timex
GT500 = Rolex

Both tell time.....

Would much rather have a Rolex on my arm...

End of debate....

 

[w3rkn]

GT = Timex
GT500 = outdated Rolex


s197 vs s550... there is no comparison, none.

 

[04SloSnake]

Quick role play.

You're on the highway in your Camero looking to run and you run into 2 Mustangs. One is a S550 GT, the other is a GT500. Which one are you more scared of?

 

[Poppacapp]

GT = Timex
GT500 = outdated Rolex


s197 vs s550... there is no comparison, none.

No such thing as an outdated Rolex. ;)

 

[okbfd]

No such thing as an outdated Rolex. ;)

Agreed :cheers:

It's not all that comfortable, the Recaros fold around you, the car will beat you to death, with handling mods it does just dandy in the twisties, and oh boy when you drop the hammer it's woody time.

Sponsored