2015 GT PP vs. 2011 GT500 w/SVT PP

[Trackaholic]

Neither one is definitively better than the other, as each has advantages in some areas over the other car. You just need to figure out what you value most, and go with the car that delivers in those areas.

GT500:
Power
Exclusivity
Resale

S550 GT:
Handling
Refinement
Technology

I'd personally prefer the S550 GT. it is powerful enough for me, handles better, and is a nicer overall car as a total package.

-T

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[Tm@c1965]

I never thought I'd see the day

...where the GT500 is basically described as a substandard POS on a Mustang site. It's so bad of a car that the standard GT versions are much better.

I've driven the GT500. It's a sweet ride. It looks good. I suppose if you leave it stock, it will not be a ticking time bomb. The only Mod I would give it is wider sticky tires.

I'm glad it's so crappy because the price should soon drop below standard GT/PP prices soon.

 

[Strokerswild]

I'd argue against the GT500 voters. It's down on a number of things in my book: design, chassis stiffness, fewer safety features (half the number of airbags), higher curb weight with a heavier forward bias, outdated interior, less features/amenities, SRA, and a far inferior driving position (crappy steering wheel 9 and 3 molding and no ability to telescope).

It has two main selling points compared to a loaded S550 GT: sheer power and exclusivity (and looks, if that's more your thing). I would have less fun with it in every practical measure, be it daily driving or doing a spirited run on a backroad twisty. Wouldn't trade my GT for one even if it was for the exact same price.

This.

I don't think I was ever really in love with my GT500, it just didn't live up to the hype. A buddy pretty much called it: a $40K engine in a $20K car. Nose-heavy, poor handling, built like it was assembled with a nail gun. Looked cool though. Not sure I'd want another unless it was going to be a dedicated strip car.

Some rant on and on about exclusivity of the GT500s, but they're not really that rare. Never will be either since most of them just sit languishing in garages, guaranteeing ease of finding a reasonably priced nice one down the road if you're so inclined and just have to have that name on the decklid.

It's sort of funny, but around here the current GT500 crowd also owns late model Corvettes - old guys that idle them around to roll-in events to stroke their egos, that have probably never exercised them properly.

 

[mustang_guy]

not on average...



i'm not saying it's not overpriced man, but bear in mind it also includes a supercharger and has the name Shelby on it. Just because something is overpriced doesn't mean it's a POS. By your logic Ferraris must suck since they are 10 times as expensive but not 10 times as fast...keep some relativity to your assessments.




okay, so once again, your crate motor / maximum modification scenario is not the norm...it's an exception.



you know that not everyone plans to do motor swaps and 10s of thousands in modifications right? I don't think you know more of those owners than me, but no reason to speculate that, it doesn't prove anything



worng. here's a thread i posted on the GT500 forums two years ago on my build: http://www.fordgt500.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19206

ended up doing a couple more things and new tuner and got 730whp, but anyways, you get the point. I've spent countless hours doing research and talking to owners and tuners, so you're just wrong, ignorant and a dick (you called it blunt).



also, there's only about 10k of the Trinity GT500s, those will be the ones that are sought after. But all Shelbys will be held in higher esteem than Mustang GTs man, esp with only a separation of a couple years. And it's not about appreciation and investment, it's merely just not buying a depreciating asset. '13 and '14 owners have pretty much driven their car for free the last year or two...sounds like a smart decision to me.

Anyways, I don't expect the OP to see objectivity or a realistic sample of overall point-of-view of auto enthusiasts on a 6G specific forum, so I'll let you guys have at it.

Not on average? Yeah, bs. Ive seen more coyotes handling the same amount of power without forged internals. Ive seen pleanty of gt500 5.8s let go on a maxed out stock blower. I wont even get into the condor. The gt500 is crap, the motor is inferior to the coyote design. I didn't ask what you felt to be an exception. The point is, it cost tons more to have a slower gt500 then it does to have a gt doing more or same for MUCH less. Im aware not everyone will do what ive done or would want to do. There is a fair amount of owners happy with stock. But I DO know that over half the people are maxing out the stock blower and rolling dice on the 13-14s. Generally people push their cobras. Its just how it is. Ive owned 4 different generation cobras. I did it to all of them. You have to realize that svt put some of the cheapest forged internals in it. Its a really big slap in the face for them to call those crap internals forged. you were walking a fine line on your own build of blowing the 5.4. im definitely not a wrong, ignorant dick. :lol: Blunt doesn't make someone a dick or ignorant. I just don't sugar coat stuff. Im to the point some people are pansies and cant take anything but nice mommy talk. With how you carry yourself, youd be eaten alive in the drag race scene or street racing scene. Eat or be eaten. That's how it is. We all don't sit around and hold each others hands and be all buddy buddy. Ive been drag racing 25+ years, its just how it is. Don't take it so personal.

 

[Tm@c1965]

I like blunt talk

Yeah man

 

[mustang_guy]

Yeah man

I see what you did there.

 

[Tm@c1965]

I wasn't aware of the cheapness of the GT500

...wrt components and forged parts.

Go check out a Hellcat. That motor is built right. They did a nice job on the interior also. The weak area for recent Challengers (12-15') is paint quality and fitment of body panels. Otherwise a quality machine.

 

[mustang_guy]

...wrt components and forged parts.

Go check out a Hellcat. That motor is built right. They did a nice job on the interior also. The weak area for recent Challengers (12-15') is paint quality and fitment of body panels. Otherwise a quality machine.

It really is a neat car don't get me wrong, they had a lot of potential but svt wasted it. When the rods snap because of taking advantage of the extended rpm limit (7000rpms), ford should have known to not reuse the condor rods. They changed too much on the condor to make the trinity. Bottom line, they skimped on rods then had the nerve to charge some ungodly premium to replace them if someone wanted an OE motor. Hell 7500 for a BARE block no pistons, crank etc is RETARDED. That's why Shelby build of the supersnake 1000s got new pistons and rods. Its also why it costs 100+k for one. The motors are stupid expensive to build. If you blew a 5.8 its 7500 for the block, then roughly 20k for internals. That's just stupid. You can damn near have a built coyote for just the block price alone.

 

[Poppacapp]

Looking up the info on Edmunds, a loaded 11 GT500 came in at 3800 lbs. You think or know;), the 15GT, with like options will come in at 3800lbs?

My 2012 GT500 SVTPP came in at 3800lbs on a certified truck scale. My Base 2015 Auto was 3715. Not far off.

The GT500 is a beast right out of the box, and a simple pulley/tune combo will get you to 550+rwhp. That, along with the fact that it is a Shelby.

The 2015 is more refined, and handles transitions a little better on the road.

Depends on you end goal with the car I would think. I will say my Shelby was a very fun car to drive. Managed to do 60-130 in 5.71secs. ;)

 

[MrBillton]

Your responses are walls of text like you just throw up on your keyboard. It's pretty evident your intelligence is below average.

Why do most tuners leave blown Coyotes around 6-650whp meanwhile GT500 are always tuned from 650-750 with blower swaps?

Not on average? Yeah, bs. Ive seen more coyotes handling the same amount of power without forged internals.

Lol you say it's just crap yet two posts later you say it's a neat car to the other guy...you're seriously a tool. And once again, the only perspective you're able to provide is that the Coyote is better if you want to spend less to get to 1000whp and do motor swaps...what a joke...if that's your only perspective on cars, you're looking at the wrong ones, go get a gutted foxbody...

No one is saying the GT500 motor design isn't inferior you knucklehead...the Coyote is newer tech after all. But it does make up for that with displacement and the forged internals (which aren't as good as an aftermarket motor, we get it). Corvette motors also aren't as advanced but they spank Mustangs any way you wanna race them smart guy.

The gt500 is crap, the motor is inferior to the coyote design. I didn't ask what you felt to be an exception. The point is, it cost tons more to have a slower gt500 then it does to have a gt doing more or same for MUCH less.

No, your exact words were that I have ZERO experience with GT500s and don't know shit about them...that is WRONG and since you said it not knowing anything about me, it's also IGNORANT.

I'd get eaten alive at the street racing scene...you're cute

im definitely not a wrong, ignorant dick. :lol: Blunt doesn't make someone a dick or ignorant. I just don't sugar coat stuff. Im to the point some people are pansies and cant take anything but nice mommy talk. With how you carry yourself, youd be eaten alive in the drag race scene or street racing scene. Eat or be eaten. That's how it is. We all don't sit around and hold each others hands and be all buddy buddy. Ive been drag racing 25+ years, its just how it is. Don't take it so personal.

 

[mustang_guy]

Your responses are walls of text like you just throw up on your keyboard. It's pretty evident your intelligence is below average.

Why do most tuners leave blown Coyotes around 6-650whp meanwhile GT500 are always tuned from 650-750 with blower swaps?



Lol you say it's just crap yet two posts later you say it's a neat car to the other guy...you're seriously a tool. And once again, the only perspective you're able to provide is that the Coyote is better if you want to spend less to get to 1000whp and do motor swaps...what a joke...if that's your only perspective on cars, you're looking at the wrong ones, go get a gutted foxbody...

No one is saying the GT500 motor design isn't inferior you knucklehead...the Coyote is newer tech after all. But it does make up for that with displacement and the forged internals (which aren't as good as an aftermarket motor, we get it). Corvette motors also aren't as advanced but they spank Mustangs any way you wanna race them smart guy.



No, your exact words were that I have ZERO experience with GT500s and don't know shit about them...that is WRONG and since you said not knowing anything about me, it's also IGNORANT.

I'd get eaten alive at the street racing scene...you're cute

Yeah my intelligence is below average because its a wall of text. Awesome logic. Heaven forbid if im not being all proper posting from my phone. :hail: Lets attack my intelligence as a whole because its not spaced and all proper. :clap2: They leave them there because of the oil pump gears and lower timing gear. It is crap, something can be neat but still have crap internals. Youre reaching. A tool? What are you early 30s at best? Who still talks like that? Because someone is building a motor its suddenly a swap? :lol: Don't tell me what car to look at, im not your child. Ive done a foxbody before thanks. You don't need a gutted to piss car to run 8s or 9s with a 1000whp. Wait wait, stop there..... coyote came out in 2011. Trinity came out in 2013. Its newer tech? Oh really, tell me how that works. :tsk: Wait, wait, wait, corvettes spank mustangs anyway you want to race them? Oh really. When has the last vette ever run 5s or low 6s? Oh wait, never. There are more fast mustangs then corvettes. Period. Road courses, I guess you haven't heard of griggs racing. you should do a little more research. You're reaching again, you assumed I meant all gt500s. I wasnt talking about the 5.4s. You were I suppose. I was talking about the 5.8s as were some other people. I got the impressions you were chiming in about the 5.8s. If you weren't. My apology there. You would definitely get eaten on the street with your girly attitude.

 

[MrBillton]

The date an engine is manufactured doesn't indicate how technologically advanced it is...the 2013 motor isn't as technologically advanced as the Coyote...it's just an extended application of the previously used tech in a larger displacement and small revisions. You know this already, not sure why I need to explain it.

Mustangs don't run in the 5s...Mustang chassis do...

There are more Mustangs than Corvettes is what you mean...they aren't faster...stop that.

Wait wait, stop there..... coyote came out in 2011. Trinity came out in 2013. Its newer tech? Oh really, tell me how that works. :tsk: Wait, wait, wait, corvettes spank mustangs anyway you want to race them? Oh really. When has the last vette ever run 5s or low 6s? Oh wait, never. There are more fast mustangs then corvettes. Period.

Have I heard of the Griggs setup?

Feel free to check out my build I linked you to smart guy...I'm more than familiar with it considering it had a setup identical to Griggs...lol...once again...another ignorant statement on your part or you reading comprehension is just subpar

Road courses, I guess you haven't heard of griggs racing. you should do a little more research.

Your overuse of emojis can't overcompensate for your lack of perspective...and once again...no one in this thread is talking about extreme cases but you and by conveying that you expect to get the same $ for $ performance return out of a more expensive car it also shows you lack any understanding of the law of diminishing marginal utility/returns.

Let's recap:
1. You think Shelby's are crap
2. You bought said "crap"
3. You sold said "crap" for a Mustang GT
4. You said I have ZERO experience with Shelbys...WRONG
5. You said I don't know shit about them...WRONG
6. Shelbys are generally faster than Coyotes in most applications beyond motor build/cost
7. They are more rare/revered
8. They are worth more
9. They have have forged internals
10. No OEM motor can handle the loads you're talking about

You say I wouldn't last in the street racing scene...so I'd encourage you to go tell Shelby guys at your next street racing event that their cars are crap.

 

[mustang_guy]

The date an engine is manufactured doesn't indicate how technologically advanced it is...the 2013 motor isn't as technologically advanced as the Coyote...it's just an extended application of the previously used tech in a larger displacement and small revisions. You know this already, not sure why I need to explain it.

Mustangs don't run in the 5s...Mustang chassis do...

There are more Mustangs than Corvettes is what you mean...they aren't faster...stop that.



Have I heard of the Griggs setup?

Feel free to check out my build I linked you to smart guy...I'm more than familiar with it considering it had a setup identical to Griggs...lol...once again...another ignorant statement on your part or you reading comprehension is just subpar



Your overuse of emojis can't overcompensate for your lack of perspective...and once again...no one in this thread is talking about extreme cases but you and by conveying that you expect to get the same $ for $ performance return out of a more expensive car it also shoes you also lack any understanding of the law of diminishing marginal utility/returns.

Let's recap:
1. You think Shelby's are crap
2. You bought said "crap"
3. You sold said "crap" for a Mustang GT
4. You said I have ZERO experience with Shelbys...WRONG
5. You said I don't know shit about them...WRONG
6. Shelbys are generally faster than Coyotes in most applications beyond motor build/cost
7. They are more rare/revered
8. They are worth more
9. They have have forged internals
10. No OEM motor can handle the loads you're talking about

You say I wouldn't last in the street racing scene...so I'd encourage you to go tell Shelby guys at your next street racing event that their cars are crap.

The coyote is in the 6s already. The but there is a mustang in the 5s in promod. John Mihovetz . I think you need to read more about the trinity. http://www.mustangandfords.com/news/m5lp-1203-2013-ford-shelby-gt500-trinity-5-8l-v8/ Was I supposed to read your entire thread? No thanks. I got the general idea. Awesome you had cortex. Then you should know vettes don't spank mustangs at everything, period. I never disputed that vettes are faster stock. I was disputing modified. I haven't a single reading comprehension problem. You really should stop assuming my intelligence is lacking. I highly doubt as a member of Mensa that its lacking at all. I personally use the faces because people have a stupid common problem of adding tone to text that isn't there or is there but they didn't notice. Thanks for your worthless opinion on the topic of emojis. Your opinion on what is extreme is subjective at best. I couldn't careless about diminishing value. You are the only person I see hung up on resale, value, rare blah blah. Starting with a faster car, no one would think it costs more to go faster then the cheaper car. Im not talking old used cars like foxbodies vs relatively new cars. It shouldn't cost more tons more to make the gt500 get more power over what you can do in the coyote. You need to go back and reread what I said I think. I said I bought the gt500 yes, I didn't know when I bought it the internals were junk. Why else would I have bought it? For shits and grins? How about no. I said what I said about you not having experience with shelbys, yes. A few people were onto talking about the 5.8 gt500s as I posted about them as well, before your post that I addressed. I was under the impression you were talking about them as well. Since that's what the topic had moved over to. I stated this already. You were talking about the 5.4 which I didn't know. I also apologized on that. Gt500s are NOT faster then coyotes on average. You couldn't be further wrong. You clearly are not an avid drag racer. Most people do not care that a gt500 is more rare, you are the minority there. Who cares what is more rare. Most of these people sure as hell don't. Who cares if its worth more. Cobras always fetch higher prices, nothing new there. Ford really needs to stop calling those junk internals forged. Im aware no motor currently handles that power. It doesn't make it not bullshit they use cheap forged parts. This day in age where we build 600+ hp cars to have rods that can handle more power then a measly upgraded blower in the gt500s case. You should have been able to upgrade the blower on the 5.8 before you had rod issues. Not stock blower. Its unacceptable. I have zero issues telling people what I think to their faces. Ive said it before as an owner at a previous meet that I was selling it because of how I feel about it. More of them then you think didn't disagree with what ford did but they chose to deal with it. I chose not to. Am I supposed to be scared of them? Are they going to beat me up for stating how I feel? That's pretty primitive. Ive lasted this long, looks like youre wrong.

 

[mustang_guy]

I see in my last post there my phone changed 6s to 5s . The coyotes are in the 6s. Sorry about my phone changing that. But as far as mustangs running 5s, the first one running 5s is John Mihovetz. That is a 4.6L if im not mistaken.

I need to stop posting from my phone!

 

[MrBillton]

Thanks, the article you linked to states that the Coyote was essentially a clean sheet of paper whereas the the 5.8 was just an extension of pre-existing engine tech...which means, as I stated, the Coyote is a newer tech motor...not sure how you don't comprehend that...oh yeah...your reading comprehension is subpar...here's the excerpt:

Compared to the now familiar Coyote 5.0, which was essentially a clean-sheet-of-paper design that owed next to nothing to the previous 4.6 Three-Valve starting point, it's tempting to say the 5.8 is a stretched 5.4 with the boost turned up. In fact, when described in overview, the 5.8 is indistinguishable from the 5.4 starting point. Like the 5.4, the 5.8 is an all-aluminum V-8 with double overhead camshafts, four valves per cylinder, a belt-driven supercharger, and air-to-water charge cooling. Like the 5.4, the 5.8 does not use variable cam timing, much less twin independent cam timing, nor does it use direct fuel injection. Indeed, the 5.8 does use the same fundamental architecture of the 5.4, meaning basics such as the bore spacing, nominal deck height, pan rail width, cylinder head design, and so on, are identical.

However, scratch just below the surface of the basic architecture and an amazing number of details differ. It's those details that make up this story, and they are there to support four major changes: greater displacement, significantly higher boost, piston oil squirters, and higher rpm.

Point is technologically speaking, it was not new like the Coyote motor was at the time.

Actually coyote engines do run 5s. I think you need to read more about the trinity. http://www.mustangandfords.com/news/m5lp-1203-2013-ford-shelby-gt500-trinity-5-8l-v8/

No, clearly you didn't get the idea since you told me to go research Griggs

I got the general idea. Awesome you had cortex. Then you should know vettes don't spank mustangs at everything, period.

I'd venture to guess that most Mustang owners would classify your scenario as an extreme one.

I know you couldn't care less because you don't even understand the concept...I'm not talking about resale value genius...Feel free to google the Law of diminishing marginal gain...in this context it means that with each dollar you spend you will see less return for it. It's a pretty basic principal of the universe, but clearly you're unable to apply it to automotive.

Your opinion on what is extreme is subjective at best. I couldn't careless about diminishing value. You are the only person I see hung up on resale, value, rare blah blah. Starting with a faster car, no one would think it costs more to go faster then the cheaper car.

So now you're lowering your HP number to sound more in line with normality...Shelby's handle 600+ beautifully.

This day in age where we build 600+ hp cars to have rods that can handle more power then a measly upgraded blower in the gt500s case.

Okay, so once again, next time you're at an event, let the Shelby owners know that their car is a piece of crap, and be sure to use that specific phrasing you recklessly threw around here. Be sure to report back here on their reaction.

I have zero issues telling people what I think to their faces. Ive said it before as an owner at a previous meet that I was selling it because of how I feel about it.

Your points that you know more than me about the GT500 have been supported by the following:

1. Saying I have zero experience with them (which is false)
2. Speculating that you know more GT500 owners than I do (which probably isn't true and in any case proves nothing)

Your points that the GT500 is "a piece of crap" have been supported by the following:

1. A single perspective of an extreme case scenario in which the Coyote costs less to obtain a certain HP level beyond what 99% of owners will do
2. The OEM rods break at around 800whp

In any case, you sold a 2014 Shelby for a Mustang GT...no punchline needed...

:headbonk:

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