2015-2020 Mustang GT Cat Delete Pipes: First To Market and The Original Cat Deletes

[JoseLimon]

I picked up some of these pipes a while back I’m wondering if anyone knows of a shop in the northern California area specifically around Sacramento that could get these installed for me?

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[hipoxia]

In Stock and Ready to Ship!!!!
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https://www.makperformance.com/2015-2019-Mustang-GT-MAK-Performance-Pipes_p_299.html

How do I choose off road pipes? Only see cat options.

 

[cobrakid]

99% CATLESS are NO LONGER AVAILABLE for anything ! EPA government stepped in and screwed us all.

 

[K4fxd]

There are product liability laws that protect manufacturers from the misuse of their products. These companies need to quit rolling over and take the EPA to court.

Saying MAK is responsible if I run their off road pipe on the street is like saying Ford is liable if I get drunk, drive and kill someone.

 

[bankyf]

There are product liability laws that protect manufacturers from the misuse of their products. These companies need to quit rolling over and take the EPA to court.

Saying MAK is responsible if I run their off road pipe on the street is like saying Ford is liable if I get drunk, drive and kill someone.

While I know nothing about product liability laws, I suspect the EPA recent interpretation of the law may be the issue. The fact that, in their opinion, you may not alter emissions equipment on any vehicle regardless of use is the problem. At that point, a cat delete product no longer has any legal use within the country. I will say that Kooks doesn't appear to have rolled over, but they seem to be charging prices that will help with their legal representation for said products.

 

[K4fxd]

You are right. But with the recent SCOTUS ruling on power plants I think now is the time to get this in front of the court.

These companies should band together and pool legal fee's.

 

[AdrianMAK]

There are product liability laws that protect manufacturers from the misuse of their products. These companies need to quit rolling over and take the EPA to court.

Saying MAK is responsible if I run their off road pipe on the street is like saying Ford is liable if I get drunk, drive and kill someone.

Very simplistic view, wish it were that easy, trust us there is a reason why everyone is not doing it.
Unfortunately, there is no legal use of an offroad pipe according to the EPA, and you don't have the right to convert your car for offroad use. If you purchased an emmission compliant vehicle, it must always remain that, even though it is your property, you do not have the right to alter its use case. The waters get very muddy, and very expensive. Read up on the RPM Act, some very good information in there.

https://www.saveourracecars.com/

While I know nothing about product liability laws, I suspect the EPA recent interpretation of the law may be the issue. The fact that, in their opinion, you may not alter emissions equipment on any vehicle regardless of use is the problem. At that point, a cat delete product no longer has any legal use within the country. I will say that Kooks doesn't appear to have rolled over, but they seem to be charging prices that will help with their legal representation for said products.

A few of the big companies have big attorneys on staff and are willing to run the risk.

Unfortunately us small companies. cant run the risk, the fines are sometimes in the millions, any small company like us gets hit with a million dollar fine, we are just closing up and looking for something else to do. It has happened a few times already in the last few years.

You are right. But with the recent SCOTUS ruling on power plants I think now is the time to get this in front of the court.

These companies should band together and pool legal fee's.

Its has already happened, its called the RPM ACT. Check it out, lots of good information.

https://www.saveourracecars.com/

 

[junits15]

You are right. But with the recent SCOTUS ruling on power plants I think now is the time to get this in front of the court.

These companies should band together and pool legal fee's.

Too much at stake, the risk is really high. Companies have been shut down on other platforms. Cobb tuning, the biggest Subaru tuner in the world, has removed any and all methods of interfering with the emissions system from their software. This runs really deep.

From the point of view of a small parts company there are two options:
1. keep selling cat delete parts and very likely end up with a fine that the business owner will have to pay for the rest of their life. Maybe jail time but I doubt that.
2. Weld a GESi cat in with basically zero performance impact and keep their business alive.

The really bad part is that selling parts with GESi cats or even other EPA compliant cats is still not 100% safe. The law is written in such a way that you cannot alter the stock emissions system unless it fails. The only exception is for cars that are not registered and never get driven on a federally funded road. So if you delete your cat and trailer your car to and from the track, that is the only time you can even touch the emissions system and stay within the law.

I guess they could sell them under the guise of "replacement parts" but similar to "off road use only" that would only be a temporary fix.

 

[K4fxd]

The law is written in such a way that you cannot alter the stock emissions system unless it fails

The "regulation is written"..
If clean air is the goal it shouldn't matter what parts are on the car, so long as it conforms to what CONGRESS specifies.

The only exception is for cars that are not registered and never get driven on a federally funded road.

Wrong, the EPA is saying if a car has a VIN number at any time and if emission controls were part of that car, it must never be modified, even if it is never driven on any public road.

This makes almost every race car in the USA illegal to operate. Even 1968 to 1972 Chevelles had emission controls. So 99% of all dirt modified cars are illegal.

This is a complete over step of their authority and SCOTUS needs to slap them back to reality. Just like they did with the power plants.

 

[junits15]

Wrong, the EPA is saying if a car has a VIN number at any time and if emission controls were part of that car, it must never be modified, even if it is never driven on any public road.

To me that makes no sense

the only method of enforcement they have is emissions testing, there’s no police force dedicated to inspecting every car out there.

if I delete my cats on my unregistered car. They literally have zero method of ever knowing. Unregistered cars are emissions tested.

 

[K4fxd]

Non registered cars are outside of their control.

The EPA is claiming unregistered cars are included in their control. (read the ruling, it says any car with a VIN cannot be emissions modified INCLUDING cars that never see public roads.) That is why test pipes are no longer being made. The EPA says there is no LEGAL reason for them to exist.

Support the RPM act

The EPA now has an ARMED enforcement division. It won't be long before it is used.

From Motortrend

" In 2016, the RPM Act was introduced to combat the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) mission to enforce the Clean Air Act within the motorsport's realm by banning the act of converting street vehicles into race-only vehicles. And yes, that includes vehicles that would never see street time and would be transported to and from competition sites by trailer."

 

[junits15]

The EPA is claiming unregistered cars are included in their control. (read the ruling, it says any car with a VIN cannot be emissions modified INCLUDING cars that never see public roads.) That is why test pipes are no longer being made. The EPA says there is no LEGAL reason for them to exist.

Support the RPM act

The EPA now has an ARMED enforcement division. It won't be long before it is used.

From Motortrend

" In 2016, the RPM Act was introduced to combat the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) mission to enforce the Clean Air Act within the motorsport's realm by banning the act of converting street vehicles into race-only vehicles. And yes, that includes vehicles that would never see street time and would be transported to and from competition sites by trailer."

I saw that too, and initially I was nervous, but the only method of enforcement they have is emissions testing, which is only required on registered cars. If a car is unregistered, they dont even know who owns it.

 

[K4fxd]

I saw that too, and initially I was nervous, but the only method of enforcement they have is emissions testing,

They now have an armed enforcement division. Who do you think stormed Lund ect....

Unless they are stopped they will show up at race tracks and start impounding cars or worse. If it is emissions modified, and has a vin stamped somewhere on it, it is illegal. That could mean a late model dirt modified with out an EGR or PCV system.

Most will say "that will never happen". I say what if it does? They (EPA) are claiming authority to do it.

 

[TexasMetallic5.0]

They’re all crooks and hypocrites. The RPM act is a joke. I don’t need to pass any emissions testing where I live, and they can go pound sand.

 

[LSchicago]

"Test pipes" are still available, but few and far between.

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