2015-17 Mustang GT Ford Performance Power Packs

[TheLion]

I'm like 95% sure I'm pulling the trigger on a PP2, but some of the comments here have me hesitating.

FWIW: I have a stock 2017 Mustang GT with 3.55 gears. I don't track my car at all, and don't really intend to. However, I *allegedly* do play a bit from a dig on stoplights and from a roll on highways. I'm not trying to get this car to fly, but it'd be nice to at least be competitive vs. stock Camaro SS, and not to get destroyed off the line by freaking modded Subarus (though I always blow right past them soon after).

A couple of questions:
- Do I *need* an oil separator if I'm installing a PP2?
- Did you notice any sound differences based *just* on the addition of a PP2? I've seen mixed reviews on this (some saying the car becomes a bit louder, some say there's no difference).
- Would you recommend pairing the PP2 with an aftermarket exhaust system, or does it really not matter?
- Anything else I should know before I pull the trigger?

1. You do NOT NEED an oil separator, but it won't hurt as long as your willing to empty it regularly. A few people reported pinging that was resolved by using an oil separator, but most don't have any issues at all. If you have poor fuel quality AND are limited to 91 or at a higher altitude I'd imagine an oil separator would be more valuable to you than it would to most. Since the second generation 5.0 is port injected there's no benefit other than reducing possible fuel dilution. Oil vapor or droplets in the combustion chamber have proven time and again, both NA and FI, to cause higher occurrences of knock. The ECU will keep things running safe, but you may loose some power by forcing it to run more conservative timing should it occur.

I'd wager an after market oil cooler and better NOAC rated oil would be more beneficial than an oil separator. Oil isn't going to boil off if it doesn't get hot enough, if it's not boiling off then there's no need for an oil separator that requires you to empty it! A more robust oil and an oil cooler allow for an increase margin before any boil off would occur.

I did that with my Ecoboost and it worked very well when so many others were saying you "need a catch can", I was making 315 WHP on the dyno in 4th gear with just the Ford Performance Power pack, an inter cooler (ATM) and thermostatic oil cooler (Mishimoto).

2. Sorry, can't help there as I won't have my PP2 until august...

3. If you go after market exhaust, most of your gains are in weight savings, especially with the Ford Performance exhaust by Borla, which is 30 lbs lighter, but there are a couple of HP to be squeezed out at higher RPM (maybe 5-7 on average) mostly due to the "suite case" being traded for an X pipe which does flow a little better than the stock "suite case" on most of the after market exhausts.

4. You might want to consider a higher efficiency coolant or coolant additive especially if you don't have a Performance Package car with the thicker radiator. Amsoil makes a full temperature range coolant additive that lowered temps in 50/50 mixture coolant by about 8F. PP2 is pushing more power and revving higher, there's going to be a little more heat. It doesn't just lower average temps, it also helps decrease warm up and cool down times. Once you start to build heat, the more conductivity you can provide to the radiator, the faster you can shed that heat and cool down.

If you keep things in the optimal temperature range, you'll get the full timing that the PP2 ECU software is willing to give you more often and a small boost in conductivity of the coolant will help off set some of the added heat. Some track guys have used this successfully to help keep temps a little lower, there's absoulutely no reason it can't be used in a daily, in fact it will help reduce cold start wear by bringing the oil temps up faster especially if you have a PP radiator and water to oil cooler that PP cars come with: https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/other-products/antifreeze/dominator-coolant-boost/

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[re-rx7]

I'm like 95% sure I'm pulling the trigger on a PP2, but some of the comments here have me hesitating.

FWIW: I have a stock 2017 Mustang GT with 3.55 gears. I don't track my car at all, and don't really intend to. However, I *allegedly* do play a bit from a dig on stoplights and from a roll on highways. I'm not trying to get this car to fly, but it'd be nice to at least be competitive vs. stock Camaro SS, and not to get destroyed off the line by freaking modded Subarus (though I always blow right past them soon after).

A couple of questions:
- Do I *need* an oil separator if I'm installing a PP2?
- Did you notice any sound differences based *just* on the addition of a PP2? I've seen mixed reviews on this (some saying the car becomes a bit louder, some say there's no difference).
- Would you recommend pairing the PP2 with an aftermarket exhaust system, or does it really not matter?
- Anything else I should know before I pull the trigger?

- You done "need" a separator but it helps
-Car has a deeper tone after 3k
-doesnt matter

 

[poncho@home]

I'm like 95% sure I'm pulling the trigger on a PP2, but some of the comments here have me hesitating.

FWIW: I have a stock 2017 Mustang GT with 3.55 gears. I don't track my car at all, and don't really intend to. However, I *allegedly* do play a bit from a dig on stoplights and from a roll on highways. I'm not trying to get this car to fly, but it'd be nice to at least be competitive vs. stock Camaro SS, and not to get destroyed off the line by freaking modded Subarus (though I always blow right past them soon after).

A couple of questions:
- Do I *need* an oil separator if I'm installing a PP2?
- Did you notice any sound differences based *just* on the addition of a PP2? I've seen mixed reviews on this (some saying the car becomes a bit louder, some say there's no difference).
- Would you recommend pairing the PP2 with an aftermarket exhaust system, or does it really not matter?
- Anything else I should know before I pull the trigger?

My PP1 has a different tone now, so I imagine PP2 does as well.

 

[TexasRebel]

A couple of questions:
- Do I *need* an oil separator if I'm installing a PP2?
- Did you notice any sound differences based *just* on the addition of a PP2? I've seen mixed reviews on this (some saying the car becomes a bit louder, some say there's no difference).
- Would you recommend pairing the PP2 with an aftermarket exhaust system, or does it really not matter?
- Anything else I should know before I pull the trigger?

An oil separator is not necessary.

PP2 removes the sound tube that pipes the intake sound into the cabin... so yes, the sound will change.

The exhaust doesn't matter, especially if you are only working cat-back. There will be no performance gains. However, the stock resonator is HEAVY... an aftermarket exhaust with an X or H pipe will shed some weight.

Use the dead pedal while you aren't shifting. If you ride your foot on the clutch pedal you will engage the no-lift-shift feature and lock yourself out of the higher RPM range.

The 'pop' when you turn the engine off is the throttle body slamming shut. It's normal.

You'll need GT350 air filters from now on.

 

[SJulian10mm]

I'm like 95% sure I'm pulling the trigger on a PP2, but some of the comments here have me hesitating.

FWIW: I have a stock 2017 Mustang GT with 3.55 gears. I don't track my car at all, and don't really intend to. However, I *allegedly* do play a bit from a dig on stoplights and from a roll on highways. I'm not trying to get this car to fly, but it'd be nice to at least be competitive vs. stock Camaro SS, and not to get destroyed off the line by freaking modded Subarus (though I always blow right past them soon after).

A couple of questions:
- Do I *need* an oil separator if I'm installing a PP2?
- Did you notice any sound differences based *just* on the addition of a PP2? I've seen mixed reviews on this (some saying the car becomes a bit louder, some say there's no difference).
- Would you recommend pairing the PP2 with an aftermarket exhaust system, or does it really not matter?
- Anything else I should know before I pull the trigger?

I have had PP2 on my car since April of last year, have been extremely happy with 8,000 trouble free miles.
- No, but I installed one (Ford Performance one) when I installed PP2 and it was worth it pull an ounce out every few thousand miles, but I use high end synthetic oil, I'm sure more would collect if using cheaper conventional and running the car hard.
- Sound did change slightly, not volume, just pitch mainly at WOT.
- Yes, I had the Ford Performance Sport axle backs on before PP2, later I added an x pipe, sounds mean and if nothing else the car shed nearly 20lbs mainly from the center resonator (suit case). Probably runs slightly stronger but not enough for the butt dyno to notice.
- Don't hesitate, it was worth every penny.

 

[Humphammer]

An oil separator is not necessary.

PP2 removes the sound tube that pipes the intake sound into the cabin... so yes, the sound will change.

The exhaust doesn't matter, especially if you are only working cat-back. There will be no performance gains. However, the stock resonator is HEAVY... an aftermarket exhaust with an X or H pipe will shed some weight.

Use the dead pedal while you aren't shifting. If you ride your foot on the clutch pedal you will engage the no-lift-shift feature and lock yourself out of the higher RPM range.

The 'pop' when you turn the engine off is the throttle body slamming shut. It's normal.


You'll need GT350 air filters from now on.

I actually like the sound that is piped into the cabin right now. I am currently stock with a drop in K/N filter. It seems to me that it would much easier to attach the sound tube to the new CAI with the PP2 than it would be to remove it. Is there some reason other than sound to remove the sound tube?

 

[TexasRebel]

I actually like the sound that is piped into the cabin right now. I am currently stock with a drop in K/N filter. It seems to me that it would much easier to attach the sound tube to the new CAI with the PP2 than it would be to remove it. Is there some reason other than sound to remove the sound tube?

The GT350 duct work doesn't have a place for it.

 

[arfabe16]

PP2 removes the sound tube that pipes the intake sound into the cabin... so yes, the sound will change.

.

So it becomes *quieter* with the PP2?! I love almost everything I'm reading about PP2 but damn, the car is already pretty quiet without an aftermarket exhaust.

 

[LucaGT]

So it becomes *quieter* with the PP2?! I love almost everything I'm reading about PP2 but damn, the car is already pretty quiet without an aftermarket exhaust.

I don't know with stock exhaust because I have a Magnaflow Catback.

What I can tell you, yes the car get quieter when you remove the sound tube (fake sound in the cabin) but the real engine sound gets a bit deeper and louder.

The car is way more fun to drive!!! Go for it!!!

 

[Humphammer]

So it becomes *quieter* with the PP2?! I love almost everything I'm reading about PP2 but damn, the car is already pretty quiet without an aftermarket exhaust.

Having a more open CAI on every car that I have ever owned has increased the exhaust tone as well as the moan that you get from the intake when accelerating. I have never liked aftermarket exhausts because most all that I have ever owned or cars that I have ridden in have a certain amount of drone and I much prefer to be able to hear my music clearly at highway speeds than drone from the exhaust. I have factory exhausts but I did replace the resonator with an H pipe and the sound is close to perfect for my taste. A little extra moan from the intake when accelerating would be the trick to make it perfect IMO. I hope the GT350 intake does the trick, but I plan to play around with the sound tube a bit before removing it to see what sounds best. I should have my PP2 in a couple days.

 

[thelostotter]

So it becomes *quieter* with the PP2?! I love almost everything I'm reading about PP2 but damn, the car is already pretty quiet without an aftermarket exhaust.

I feel like the car is quieter with the windows up and cruising around at low RPMs after I did the PP2 and removed the sound tube. Windows down and driving it aggressively it definitely sounds more aggressive than it did stock. A bit deeper tone and a *little* louder.

 

[BEASTMASTER15]

I was surprised that the PP2 tune quieted my exhaust at idle. It sounded a lot meaner with the stock tune! I'd kind of expected that it would be the opposite.

 

[Freedom]

I was surprised that the PP2 tune quieted my exhaust at idle. It sounded a lot meaner with the stock tune! I'd kind of expected that it would be the opposite.

I personally thought it was louder overall and deeper, ma I swear it isn’t placebo.
Wished I had a sound meter.

 

[poncho@home]

Yeah, I don't think it placebo affect either, but even my PP1 is a little throatier.

Maybe for the PP2 since the sound tube is removed, its quieter with windows at idle?

I am only comparing when windows is open and off idle and part throttle. WOT I couldn't really tell you if there is a difference or not.

 

[TheLion]

Couple interesting points about the 2nd Generation 5.0 in 2015-2017's compared to the 3rd Generation 5.0 in 2018's and also the benchmark motor for weight / power, Chevy's LT1 6.2 in the 6th gen Camaro SS:

Now were talking ONLY emissions legal and warrantied modifications, here. What can you do on 91-93 pump gas AND remain emissions legal AND be covered by some basic power-train warranty from a mfg. or their corporate partner (e.g. Ford Performance).

1. Power band of a Power Pack 2 second generation 5.0 is nearly identical to that of the LT1 6.2 in the 6th gen Camaro SS, but is handily trounced by a Power Pack 3 which taps into all of the potential the stock internals have to offer in the 2nd generation 5.0:

2. Stock dyno compared to Power Pack 2 and to Power Pack 3 (moto IQ, same car, same day, same dyno) shows how much is left in this iteration of the 5.0:

3. Observation: from what I've seen the new third generation 5.0 has a lot less headroom available (aka the stock tune is far more aggressive than the gen 2 5.0's according to Lund and what other tuners are able to pull from it).

I would not be surprised if there ended up being only a single Power Pack option for the third generation 5.0 just like the first generation 5.0 with only marginal gains. Without going to exotic fueling like E85 etc., there's not too much left in it out of the box on pump gas, which is what the LT1 Camaro guys are seeing as well.

At this point I honestly believe the driving force behind why the Gen 2 5.0's were so de-tuned was to sell the 2018's down the road and possibly a tight project schedule that didn't allow them to pull all it's potential. Case in point:

- The 2nd generation 5.0's rotating assembly was intended to operate up to 7500 RPM with it's rotating assembly mostly being pulled from the Boss 302's "Roadrunner" 5.0, but with re-designed piston heads to accommodate slight increase in valve lift over the Boss 302's 5.0. So more or less it features optimized Boss 302 heads, rods, crank with new mid lock cam phasors to broaden the power band (compared to the cam phasors used in the first gen 5.0 and "Roadrunner" variant).

- Even the stock intake manifold with it's flow restrictions above 7,000 RPM, with just a tune, intake and throttle body sees mid-range power increase of 40~45 hp and top end increase of about 21 hp. That is NOT common for NA engines to gain that much with just a tune an intake on pump gas. It's almost as if they sandbagged the 2nd generation 5.0...giving it just enough extra power to handle the 80ish lbs of added weight from the IRS (base GT is 3705 lbs, 2013 Boss 302 came in at 3631 lbs).

- Stock rev limiter on the 2nd generation 5.0 is only 6800 RPM....the LT1 revs out to 6600 RPM. If your not reving out the 5.0....your tying your arm behind your back...Power Pack 2 increases the rev limit to 7150 RPM, a full 500 RPM more of usable rev range over the LT1. The stock manifold is good to just past 7k....why handicap it at 6800? Shift the LT1's power curve over 500 RPM and that's a Power Pack 2 5.0. That last 50 RPM is more of a buffer to allow you get all 500 RPM without hitting the rev limiter. Power Pack 3 revs out to 7450 RPM. A full 800 RPM more than the LT1 and 300 RPM more than the Power Pack 2.

1. McMark26 ran the fastest bone stock GT and SS 6M's on both forums. 12.5 for the GT and 12.1 for the SS. I know of a few A8 SS's that ran 11.9's WITH drag radials and a negative DA of around -800 to -1000 (yes they listed themselves on the "bone stock category" but DR's are NOT bone stock....at least there were no power adders....).

2. Braski ran a best so far of 11.86 with just a PP2, DR's and IRS re-work (BMR cradle lockout, vertical links, differential bushings, SP080 lowering springs and toe links). Tires aside, that's what? $1,500 of parts....best he could run with just DR's on his particular track at whatever DA he ran at was 12.7. Stock on stock tires it was 13.1 which is quite a bit slower than McMark26's bone stock run of 12.5. With just DR's and PP2 Braski dropped it times to 12.08. According to Braski there wasn't any wheel hope with DR's even on the stock IRS, it was street tires where the wheel hop was very bad. I did forget he also upgraded the half shafts, however that is not a power adder and actually adds mass to the rotating assembly.

I know he mentioned his ET was in large part because of his 1.5 60 foot but that's the key right there. The SS with similar power is NEVER going to have a 60 foot like that without being re-geared. Why? Because it runs a 2.66 first gear.

As I've said all along, the GT's gearing is just too aggressive to really put down the power in 1st gear on anything but DR's which is why DR's are so necessary and why the SS picks up very little with just DR's. The A8's don't even pick up a full 1/10th by going to DR's. It's already giving you everything it has and that makes sense, it's geared like a track car with those tall ratios. Lowering the ratios would improve the 1/4 mile time further, but you'd need quite a bit more tire to utilize it. It's an great setup for street tires!

11.86 is pretty impressive (beating out an 8 speed auto SS with drag radials and a negative DA) with a manual trans mission, some tires, a little IRS rework and a cheap power pack that's emissions legal and warranty friendly.

I believe Braski's 2016 GT PP was optioned only with the PP? That would keep his full weight to within about 75 lbs of the SS as well. I believe he also ran full weight. So very comparable power and weight between the two cars when the 2015-2017's are upgraded with a Power Pack 2 and some IRS fixes, it seems the Power Pack 2 was aimed right at GM for those scant few who actually care about that 2.4% difference as if it really matters other than for bragging rights / entertainment and inflating our own egos...

But I digress, Power Pack 2 gives you more or less the Ford equivalent of the LT1 in terms of power, it just happens 500 RPM later in the rev range which works well with Ford's short gearing. Power Pack 3 gives you the most power period, but you need to be able to rev it out to get into that power, I think Power Pack 3 would be phenomenal with the short gearing and 3.73 Torsen setup in the 6M PP GT's. It's a perfect match. I think we've seen what a PP2 can do under the right conditions and beating a 2016+ A8 Camaro SS with DR's is pretty good for a $600 power adder.

By the way, if you take a base model GT 6M and swap out the exhaust for a Ford Performance Tour or Sport Cat Back, the base weight goes down to 3675 lbs. Base weight of a 1SS is 3685 lbs. I think the two are pretty close in weight, but the GT's a tad heavier, especially when it's optioned up. If your within 50 lbs of the other car weight isn't going to be the issue.

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