17/18 350R vs. 19/20 350

[GT30fan]

I think it's too early to assume the resale of a base (non R) ....if 2019 and up...will be soft. I don't' think we can judge that yet. And you are talking a 2019 here in your original post

Right now the dealers have been/ still are dumping 2019 due to a long list of reasons...they came late to the dealers due to parts shortages, almost overlapping with 2020 models, there is the COVID issues.... so of course when dealers are blowing out cars on the cheap, it makes it even harder to get a decent price on a used one. I don't think we can judge it all based on what we are seeing this second

How many cars were dumped cheap due to slow sales that later came on to be very collectable? Many...

Time has proven that yes, a 2018 (and back) non R will not have as good of a resale as the base. True. But the 2019 refresh I believe WILL matter to half informed internet buyers when this all clears up. I used to have a Porsche during the dreaded years people were afraid of the IMS bearing failing. It had a BIG impact on that cars resale versus a year different without such a reputation, be it over hyped or not. I tried to explain it when it was for sale, but "they read all about it, so no thinks," The R in 2018 still had the 'non GT500" block and pistons, etc.

I do think the R even in this case may have a better resale, as they are more rare and collectable, so if this was a case of 2018 R vs base I'd say if that was your only issue... get the R. Unless if you pay so much more for the R that even if the percentage of what had depreciated is less, you still lose more. Losing 10% of a 100k car is still a bigger loss then 15% of a 50k car.

You have a tough choice to make. I wanted the new motor, the back seat, air cooled bucket seats...oh the wheels on the base being heavier at 30 pounds is a point out the window if you get a 2nd set for the R ....in either case your buying wheels (r to save the carbon, base to have a lighter set).

My guy says the R will win the resale battle over all, but by how much versus a 2019 and up base, I think it's going to take a bit to figure that out

By the way if you add the flap to the new "swing" in has more down force then the R wing, but I love the R wings look

Here I am (I am blue) next to an R at Ford, they have the stock base wheels on it here. I doubt the wheel weight is going to bring you down all that much if you never changed them. It's like the old 10 speed bikes, if you lose .05 pounds it's huge and it will cost, but in the end, the better biker will beat you on his heavier bike

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[Tomster]

I say get a 350 non R.

every party has a pooper. party pooper

 

[Tomster]

By the way if you add the flap to the new "swing" in has more down force then the R wing

Show me please.

 

[Chumley]

There really is no right answer. I do think GT3fan's point regarding the '18 and older R's is important. Generally speaking the R will likely be more desirable from a collectors standpoint but I think so much of that depends on usage. In 5-7 years a 10,000 mile R will almost certainly be worth more. Actually drive it and put 50,000 miles on it and I tend to doubt it will be any where near as desirable, I think people are and will continue to be 100x more comfortable buying a 10 year old 911 with higher mileage that any GT350. To me (and only me) buying a used R then intermediately buying a second set of wheels and tires and sourcing the parts to install a back seat just wouldn't work for me. If you go that route secure the back seat parts asap - 2-3 years from now it may be alot harder to find.

I know it's hard to find anyone willing to let you test drive but I can tell you that my friend had a '17 and then bought a '19. Having driven them both, I can honestly say that the difference between the two (especially the clutch/trans relationship) was so profound I went from not really giving the car serious consideration to buying one a month after driving his '19.

I will say that if you can find a '19 or '20 R with low mileage and well cared for for mid $60's that would be pretty compelling given your greater interest in the R.

 

[GT30fan]

Show me please.

..wife and I are going to store, but it was in one of the videos with Jim Owns (at Ford Performance). Or at least I think it was. Since it will be a project, I will send it later today when I can witch hunt it down

Hopefully, this wing force will help the buyer making his selection for his needs

If it turns out I am mistaken, I apologize. I know I saw it in a You Tube video, but since I HAD WATCHED ALMOST EVERY ONE THAT EVER CAME OUT, it will be an assignment.

On the looks front, I don't think I have ever seen a cooler looking one then the R wing. I wanted to swap out to one, but the way Ford does their stripes, it won't work unless I want to get into the stripes

 

[Tomster]

..wife and I are going to store, but it was in one of the videos with Jim Owns (at Ford Performance). Since it will be a project, I will send it later today when I can witch hunt it down

Hopefully, this wing force will help the buyer making his selection for his needs

On the looks front, I don't think I have ever seen a cooler looking one then the R wing. I wanted to swap out to one, but the way Ford does their stripes, it won't work unless I want to get into the stripes

I wouldn't call it a witch hunt, just setting the record straight. Jim hasn't always been right either (ahhem... venom kills demons, lol).

I've heard it discussed, but have never seen a definitive answer. I am an aeronautical type and have an interest in aerodynamics, so if you have something official from ford performance or an engineering document, that would be great.

The swing is a spoiler and a wing. I have a hard time believing that a spoiler wing combo has more downforce. Otherwise, why have the wing?

 

[Johnnydarkgt350]

Great thread as I recently went through this same buying/ choice. I found at the time about a 10,000$ bump to an “R” over similar year in miles preowned GT350’s . The old list on “ blue chip” buying guide had some of these proven thoughts; exclusiveness with lower build numbers; racing history and more; a GT350R is quicker on an Autocross course than the new GT500, and value? Over 30,000$ worth of wheels and wing Carbon fiber bits . Ford Performance spent More time and money on development To make their pinnacle GT 350. It’s already what the younger future buyers are dreaming to own someday. Thus resale. In 1965 you could have walked in a Ford show room and have been happy to purchased a high-performance k code mustang GT, Or that white blue striped Shelby GT350 , It was too expensive and made a lot of noise and had no rear seat, history repeats itself. If you’re ok with embracing the idiosyncrasies ? Find your R” and enjoy every mile as each one is special!

 

[Tomster]

I found a thread from a while back. We have a member who is an automotive journalist who did an interview with the people of Ford. Maybe it will save you all that digging.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/gt350r-wings-downforce.123884/

interviewed Ford last week:

GT350R: 300 lbs
2019 Swing: 135 lbs @ 120 mph
2019 Swing with Gurney Flab: 238 @ 120 mph

 

[Tomster]

@GT30fan
Is that a Ford parking lot?

If so, what's a Camaro doing parked there? LOL

I'm looking around... I see a Ford, another, another, another, etc, and then there is THAT!

 

[GT30fan]

Not sure. Maybe the are evaluating. maybe it's a crack pot employee..... a sales rep....

Could have that shared A10 transmission (?)

 

[GT30fan]

There really is no right answer. I do think GT3fan's point regarding the '18 and older R's is important. Generally speaking the R will likely be more desirable from a collectors standpoint but I think so much of that depends on usage. In 5-7 years a 10,000 mile R will almost certainly be worth more. Actually drive it and put 50,000 miles on it and I tend to doubt it will be any where near as desirable, I think people are and will continue to be 100x more comfortable buying a 10 year old 911 with higher mileage that any GT350. To me (and only me) buying a used R then intermediately buying a second set of wheels and tires and sourcing the parts to install a back seat just wouldn't work for me. If you go that route secure the back seat parts asap - 2-3 years from now it may be alot harder to find.

I know it's hard to find anyone willing to let you test drive but I can tell you that my friend had a '17 and then bought a '19. Having driven them both, I can honestly say that the difference between the two (especially the clutch/trans relationship) was so profound I went from not really giving the car serious consideration to buying one a month after driving his '19.

I will say that if you can find a '19 or '20 R with low mileage and well cared for for mid $60's that would be pretty compelling given your greater interest in the R.

Keep in mind for the backseat to actually match it should have the red stitching. That's already a needle in a haystack since I bet you there are only a few of them out there in the first place, and unless it was a car wreck, who would sell off a back seat to make a few bucks if you could afford an R in the first place?

I think you would need to settle for a base back seat but just keep the rear seat delete kit to switch it back

I have seen a back seat in an R that was special ordered but lord, how many could there be? 10 or so?

 

[DCShelby]

I don’t think you can get the Ford rear seat delete kit anymore.

 

[Tomster]

I don’t think you can get the Ford rear seat delete kit anymore.

Nope.

And as to the point about the R, yes, it will be worth more down the road. Its a no brainer if you ask me.

If you have to have the back seat, just get a GT back seat from an auto salvage yard. The back seat is useless anyway unless you have young kids.

 

[Frank.Herbst]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Sounds like the 2019/20 improvements are not significant enough to put the car on part with the R for my purposes. Future re-sale value is of concern to me, so sounds like an older R is worthwhile in that respect alone (noting that a new 20 non-R will have a depreciation hit as soon as its driven off the lot).

I may install a rear seat, but I don't see that as determinative as to whether I get a R or non-R. Installing the rear seats seems relatively straightforward, so not really a factor either way. I guess I will have to budget the cost of that plus new wheels and tires into the price difference between the two though.

Take a look at the sticky section just before the regular posts. The last post there lists changes for the 19 and 20 GT350. Lots of changes including a new block and many performance improvements the give it very similar performance to previous year R Shelbys. Also some of changes like blind spot and cross traffic warning are nice on cars that get street driven. If you go with the R probably a great Idea to have street wheels as others have already pointed out.

 

[GT30fan]

.....I don't want any misunderstanding about what I said in the R vs. base comments, I do think, in EVERY case, IF same year, apple to apple.....the R will be worth more without exception. Agreed!

However, again, in my past Porsche life.....I had the preferred "S" model over the base. I paid more for it. Once it got older, in every case, IF same year/ aprx miles, etc, the "S" with more power, bigger brakes, added 3rd radiator, etc etc was worth more, it even got you from a 5 speed to a 6 speed....but....the years when the so called IMS bearing became no longer a fear because they updated it, those model year resale prices..... even on the base..... out pace the "S" handsomely. People will pay more to get away from the possible IMS worry years. So understand... I had this happen to me personally....

What I'm saying is..... if certain model years get a bad rap, that reduces demand, no matter what the trim level. Supply and Demand. I know what we are thinking now...go for the R...R... R....but we are guessing now what people will think in 10 years. Every car has some years better then others, or so they say. We are mostly all safe right now, most of us still have warranties and even the oldest gen 6 GT350's aren't very old, parts are still around, so this 'fear' difference isn't that great.... yet. But Deja' Vu. But we are just guessing what matters to people 10 years from now. There will be some that will only look to buy an R, no matter what the year sure, but others will think differently since it is at least perceived that the 2019 and later has the updated Gen 2 motor, (addressing the oil concerns, stronger block able to handle boost, forged parts, pistons, etc etc), PLUS the base now has cup 2 'lite' tires, re*tuned suspension....it could be at some point many buyers may not even do searches for anything under 2019 model year. GT-R buyers do that now for example to get a certain power level. I could see that as entirely possible, especially when you compare the updated base 1/4 mile, lap time improvements, etc. that Ford had adjusted / improved for the 2019 base. So while R is still King, it's not as much as before the 2019's. Add all that up together and you might find the 2019 base really gives the older 2018 R a run for the money on resale...but only time will tell

So this is a tuff one ... he pits the 2019 new motor / re tuned base to go against the fantastic R ....but the older set. And we try to guess what will be the better resale later, which we can't figure out now until all the dealers have dumped what they have been sitting on this past year. Which has been skewing used prices, but the prices will, at some point, normalize. They won't be getting sold 5-6k under sticker and it will just be the straight used market, no more comparing same year used to dealers dumping, which lessen the values of the used car. Where's my Track Attack and owners gift box with a used one????

In my case, it was never about resale. I like the fact my back seat folds flat, it's a huge area I use. And the base has less front end scrapes. And no one HAS to do anything with the wheels on the base, I actually love the base wheels, but this is just me. Lighter is good but a strong driver in a lesser car will walk a lesser driver in the better car. I have seen it. The wheel change isn't THAT magical where in my opinion it creates a champion by just that. And maybe this guy goes to the track only once a year. Who knows

....whew that was wordy....sorry. My other point was if you had to pay another 30k to get a new, same year R versus a base, yes while it should indeed be worth more later, you also paid more for it too. I personally would LOVE to have a 2020 Heritage R. Hell ya!!!! Supposed to tramline less for 2020 with the new GT500 front end stuff added to it too. But if I got one, only time will tell if that 35k extra will get me a lot more as far as resale later (adjusted for inflation....I'd need to pull in maybe another 50K?) . If the R becomes some unreal holy grail, maybe it's the jack pot but Ford could do a supercharged Manual 6 speed 2022 Mach 1 with the GT350 coolers, etc and offer a track pack that gives us past owners something else to 'worry about' ..called supply and demand, in this case, what does that do to demand for ours R or not

Food for thought/ devils advocate. None of which should be a buzz kill. We should all enjoy the awesome machine we already have now. It's easy to overthink it, as you can see from these psychotic ramblings.

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