15 Gen 4 Whipple PBD Cal...What will it make?

Discussion in 'Forced Induction - 5.0L V8 Engine' started by Roh92cp, May 27, 2019.

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    Roh92cp

    Roh92cp Well-Known Member

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    Saw that to, but that was there second run after a cool down period, but when the run was started ECT was 176 and by 5k was 180. Yes the early knock was really odd because I never had that on many street pulls before the dyno session. I later found my Boral resonator case split at the top a little and was likely causing some rattle early on, but this did not affect peak power because it clears up and runs at 0 knock from 6k up and full timing.
     
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  2. Ruiner46

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    The knock looks to correspond to your intake cam angle, and possibly a slight lean spot early in the pull. Maybe this is before the meth is really flowing well?

    Try this link to view the log. This website is pretty good for displaying csv files. https://datazap.me/u/rdore750/roh92cp?log=0&data=2-8-13-19

    I don't see anything that points to an issue, or throttle/timing getting pulled by the ECU. The MAF and load climb all the way to the end of the pull. I don't have a good reference for the flow numbers since I live at 6000ft elevation, and my numbers are never that high. The intake and exhaust cam angles are very different from a Whipple cal if those are intake valve opening and exhaust valve closing angles in the log. But I'm sure PBD knows their stuff, so that might just be what they use.

    What ahl395 said about the meth is true. If you inject enough, you can change the stoich ratio for the fuel, which is why I was saying that you would have to change the target AFR. Basically 14.7 is stoich for gas, but 14.1 is stoich for gas with 10% ethanol. Adding more alcohol will lower it further, so you should be shooting for a different AFR if you get enough mixed in. That's why I suggested doing a race gas pull to see if things change when meth is removed from the equation.
     
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    markmurfie Well-Known Member

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    #63 markmurfie, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
    What MAP sensor are you using and where/ how do you have it setup? Just want to know how I can make my MAP sensor signal as smooth as yours.

    Your log minus the knock and 18-19* of timing not 21-22*, is exactly like my PDB logs. Nearly every PID, but I have a gen 2 and have to use a 3.25" Pulley to match your MAF frequency. I also don't get -18 to -20% fuel trims near idle, nor am I rich lightly accelerating through the gears, WOT I expect it to be slightly rich from the meth thats about it. PBD has fuel for E10 on a Whipple car near perfect everywhere, from file #1, maybe your 93 is a little high on the ethanol percentage. I would say you might have a manifold leak somewhere, maybe the spacers are not making an OEM seal to the head or manifold, or an injector o-ring is rolled and pinched or damaged some other way. Whipple 132mm TB seals great, but that seal could also be a suspect. Then there's always PCV or EVAP valve thats possibly sticking slightly open. I hate sending people on needle in a hay stack missions if its not necessary, listen to what PBD tells you to do. Roh92cp FTs.PNG
     
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    Roh92cp Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for turning me on to data zap, makes it so much easier. Never see that lean spot before, strange because meth comes in at 6 psi and at that point in the log it goes rich and then at 10 psi 4K rpm it goes lean for a bit which is weird. I'd like to know what's going on there.
    Yeah race fuel run without meth would have been a good thing to try for sure and is on the table for the next time. Thanks again for your thoughts on this.
     
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    Thanks for the review and yes, it's odd the fuel trims are that high at idle and part throttle, not sure if the 10 oz of BOOSTane would change anything, but I don't think so. I may have to investigate a possible leak, ill run that by PBD.
    I use ZT2 with their 3 bar MAP sensor to log boost and it works with Ngauge of course to display the PID. I have the boost line run into the vehicle and the sensor is under the dash.
     
  6. Bigswollnasty

    Bigswollnasty Well-Known Member

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    Have you ran it on the track or road yet? Does it feel the same as before?

    I read the thread pretty fast, not sure if anyone already asked this.
     
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    Not on the track but man road miles since with lots of medium and WOT blasts. Car feels faster for sure, but that's but dyno could be confused with improved throttle response on the initial hit which is really nice now.
     
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    Interesting. I thought maybe it might also help identify a problem but if it drives better than before, it doesn't seem like it will.

    For example, when I switched to e85 on my old car. I made a ton more power on the dyno, but realized that one of my fuel pumps wasn't working what so ever when I ran out of gas with half a tank still in the car after driving for a while lol.
     
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    Relief my compression check was 245 ish and only one was 241. So 4 psi drop in only one cyl.
     
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    11:1 compression with dry cylinders should give you 160-165. 245 would be a cr of more than 16,. Cylinders were not dry and could cover up an issue.
     
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    I did it with throttle open all plugs out fuel pump fuse 49 and injector fuse 41 pulled. Cold test and cranked for the entire cycle until it stopped on its own about 11 cranks I counted. I’ve hear other have 245 psi as well.
     
  12. Tommy V

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    Yea 165 seems low for a 11/1 compression motor.
     
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    #73 Roh92cp, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
    I’ve confirmed also with Batten Motorsports who is helping me out and where I dyno, he also gets 245 psi on his 15 twins turbo.
     
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    #74 markmurfie, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
    14.7(15) psi of atmosphere times 11= 165psi.

    Pressure= nrt/ volume. Volume gets 11 times smaller pressure gets 11 times greater. As a general rule not factoring in tempature effect.

    Look up the polytropic process and index if you are more interested in how to factor the temperature part of the equation in. When the engine is just being cranked over slowly and only a few times it would be nearly isothermal as the tempature would remain relatively constant and you wouldn't need to factor in the specific heat ratio as it would be essentially 1. If the engine was running then the rate at which the volume is changing during compression would be high enough, you would need to factor in the 1.3-1.4 heat ratio of air. That would be CR^1.4. 11^1.4=28.7. 12^1.4=32.4. you can get a lot more effective compression from just a little CR bump, all from how much hotter it gets the air during compression.
     
  15. Tommy V

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    Yea maybe i have never taken into account that the combustion chamber is rarely completely dry.I just remember the older 5.0 push rod motors having readings of 170 and they were alot lower compression.But i am from far a math expert lol.
     
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