15 Gen 4 Whipple PBD Cal...What will it make?

Discussion in 'Forced Induction - 5.0L V8 Engine' started by Roh92cp, May 27, 2019.

  1. ramirj2

    ramirj2 Well-Known Member

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    87E2799F-DFB1-4F72-BAB2-EBA2085445C8.jpeg
    Gen 2 with 3.5 is around 13 psi

    Gen 4 is supposed to have the same boost but more efficient right?

    15 psi is the boost level of a 3.25
     
  2. Burkey

    Burkey Well-Known Member

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    Unless you have additional back-pressure...or altitude change or different cam timing or one of many possible variables.
     
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    Roh92cp

    Roh92cp Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what RPM those Whipple boost charts where tested at. There's a big variance from 7000 to 8000 rpm also.
     
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  4. Mustang Mods

    Mustang Mods Well-Known Member
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    Inlet restriction? Stock airbox with tube still on? What TB?
     
  5. Ruiner46

    Ruiner46 Well-Known Member

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    Are you still running the modified OP cam angles from previous tune in your new PBD cal? How much meth are you spraying? Enough to affect fueling, or just enough for cooling?
     
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    Roh92cp

    Roh92cp Well-Known Member

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    It's a modified Airbox, 132mm TB, but its making the boost easy for that pulley. If the inlet was a restriction wouldn't be getting 15psi.


    New cam timing changes by Rob at PBD. Meth is 50/50 20 GPH before throttle body, but A/F at peak is 11.8 so meth is not affecting fueling to the point of it running rich and killing power.
     
  7. Jay-rod427

    Jay-rod427 Well-Known Member

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    Post the log, and dyno sheet!
     
  8. Ruiner46

    Ruiner46 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'm wondering if there's enough meth to change the AF where you'll make the best power. So, you would have to change your AF target for WOT fueling. Maybe a good way to test if fueling is your issue would be to shell out the bucks for a tank of race gas and turn off the meth to see what you make without having a mix of fuels.
     
  9. Boduke0220

    Boduke0220 Well-Known Member

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    That's weird! Hope you figure it out. Don't see many 93/meth cars but the E85 fueled cars I see on that pulley or around that boost make well over 800. Hell Dakota from Lund made 916 with a 3.75/20% on his Gen 3 whipple Boss.

    Got any pics of the dyno sheets?
     
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    Roh92cp

    Roh92cp Well-Known Member

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    #55 Roh92cp, Jun 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
    The meat and potatoes are here. This is a comparison showing how power Dyno results have basically been unchanged on the same dyno with very similar weather within 5 degrees F. The descriptions below are what the car had on it when it was Dyno'd, and what file or color line they are on the graph comparison.

    File 3 GREEN on graph
    Sept 2017 Whipple cal Gen 2.5
    stock headers and cats
    3.5" pulley
    93 octane gas
    Meth injection small shot
    7800 rpm pull
    18 total timing
    725 wheel corrected
    A/F 11.8

    File 4 BLUE on graph
    May 2019 Whipple Gen 4
    Modified Whipple cal with HP tuners cam timing for power
    Kooks 1 7/8 long tubes No cats
    3.5" pulley
    93 octane with 10 oz boostane
    Meth injection
    7800 rpm pull
    20 timing advance
    728 wheels corrected
    A/F 11.8

    File 6 RED on graph
    June 2019 same as above except
    PBD Rob cal
    8100 rpm pull
    22 advance timing
    733 wheel corrected
    A/F 11.8 FosterSCMods IMG_0151.JPG

    the zip file is the last dyno RED one on the graph. Zmap is the boost and Zuser2 is the IAT2 data on the log.
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. ahl395

    ahl395 Well-Known Member

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    Whats really strange is it looks like you lost low/midrange power after switching to the PBD tune which isnt what I would expect. Also the red and blue curves are much more wobbly and vary where your originial (green) is much more smooth and steady of an incline (better). It looks like after you upgraded the head unit you now have lots of peaks and valleys in the curve at least in the beginning.

    Was boost logged on the dyno? Was it consistent and steady or did it also vary up and down?

    If the meth was the issue you wouldn't be able to reach full timing. Unless your spraying too much. Have you tried lessening the meth spray while keeping full timing? If your tune is maxed at 22 it's easy to spray more than nessesary without noticing. Meth has a different ratio than gas so the reported AFR may not be 100% accurate I've read.

    I'm not a Whipple expert so bear with me on these suggestions I could have no idea what I'm talking about...
    When upgrading to the newer gen, does the lower manifold change? If so maybe you're bottlenecked by the older lower manifold with the newer head unit?
    Witha PD boost should stay pretty consistent and at/near it's highest point through the whole RPM run and not really increase with RPM, correct? Interested to see the boost curve on those dyno runs if you have it.
     
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    Roh92cp

    Roh92cp Well-Known Member

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    Man I've been trying to upload that dam CVS file and nothing works...WTF? Is there something I'm missing?

    Gen 4 uses the sam lower manifold, and boost is progressive in the log and normal, so no loss there.

    I think if I was spraying too much meth then I'd be seeing power loss with rich A/F ratio. The a/F was around 11.8.
     
  13. ahl395

    ahl395 Well-Known Member

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    You have to put it in a zip file and upload that.

    I've read that since the stoich is different for meth vs gas that the reported AFR can be incorrect, but IDK for sure. If you were spraying too much you usually get misfires but it wouldnt hurt to see if you can turn it down (while retaining 22 deg)

    Personally I can't think of anything else other than hardware wise. Compression test or send the blower out to be checked? Hopefully it's not one of those though. Staying tuned hopefully you can get to the bottom of it. I would try another dyno for shits and giggles...
     
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    Roh92cp

    Roh92cp Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the help with the log it's attached now in the post above with the dyno graph. I'll leave here as well. Zmap is the boost and Zuser2 is the IAT2 data.
     

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  15. ahl395

    ahl395 Well-Known Member

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    i'm not a log-reading expert, thats @markmurfie , but from what I see...

    1. Your ECT is pretty low in the 160s at the beginning of the pull. If the car is too cool and not fully up to operating temp your numbers will be lower. (Had this happen to me). Did you only do one single pull on the dyno or another identical pull after it was warmed up more?
    2. You had some knock in the midrange which could be the cause of the peaks and valleys in the curves.
    3. Not related to low numbers but from what I see it appears your knock sensors arent configured "correctly" in the typical way these cars are set up. In the fact that your knock is reading 0 and your base timing is 22. Usually base timing is lower and the ECU adds timing via negative knock. Surprising to see PBD set it up this way.

    Take all of that with a grain of salt since I read logs in excel lol. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can chime in.
     
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