10R80 Swap with Overdrive

[CORNYOTE]

A part of me says to just go TH 400 and be done with it, having 3.15's out back wouldn't be that bad on the highway in regards to rpm. I just don't like how you have to cut out the tunnel for the shifter and the car won't be as fun to drive without the paddle shifters.

I have a buddy with the MT82 looking into that swap haha. I may have to go that route once I send this spare motor off to MPR to get built.

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[pro 5.0]

Do you have the full breakdown of what is applied for each gear? I’ve always been curious but never found the breakdown.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/12/saturation-dive-ford-10-speed-transmission-power-flow/

 

[steph93lx]

Tuning was done by Lund so I'd hope that's not the issue, once you dissect the 10R80 and understand what clutch packs are applied in what gears it becomes clear why it won't work with the stock clutch count. You also have to take into account that turbo cars generally make more torque but in this case it was only 741 lb ft, having the torque reduction turned off may also be a contributing factor. The fact remains it did smoke the Mc Leod clutches and no 2 cars are the same so what works for 1 car may not work on another, I am currently trying to get the steels machined down to allow for more frictions to be added. It should also be noted that the trans did NOT skip a beat and there was no indication of any problem, the shift points were bang on what was commanded in the tune. I am building a sleeved block and thought it was a good idea to tear the trans down while it was out to have a look, so these other cars that have no issues may seem that way but until a teardown is performed no one will know for sure if there is signs of slippage or not. I heard rumors of a new friction material coming out but a simple phone call to the Raybestos engineer confirmed that's BS. They said this was the first time any problem was reported and have stated the GPZ material is the latest and greatest, there is nothing on the drawing board at this time. I also contacted Exedy and the engineering department has had a 10R80 in their possession for almost 1.5 years and nothing has been developed as of yet so I wouldn't hold my breath on a better option anytime soon from either company.

This seem new for the 10R80!
Don't know if this blue friction material is better than the GPZ !?

View attachment 436596

 

[pro 5.0]

I've increased the clutch count on mine by machining down the steels and pressure plates, I was going to order the blue's but Raybestos didn't have any real world feedback on them. They couldn't tell me if they are better than the GPZ material or not and since I have a new set of GPZ I'll use those.

 

[steph93lx]

I've increased the clutch count on mine by machining down the steels and pressure plates, I was going to order the blue's but Raybestos didn't have any real world feedback on them. They couldn't tell me if they are better than the GPZ material or not and since I have a new set of GPZ I'll use those.

I have sent a email to Raybestos to see if I get the same answer. It's weird they cannot tell if the blue are better than the gpz or at least a pros and cons in our application has they are the one designing and producing those different clutch liners!

I am very interested in your clutch count increase mods!
Are you adding 1 or 2 clutch by pack and on what pack exactly?

 

[pro 5.0]

The blue frictions have been around a long time, the Gen 1 material was very aggressive and used to eat up the steel separator plates. This new Gen 2 material was designed to eliminate that problem. The GPZ material is used in heavy duty commercial use and also in high torque diesel applications. The 10R80 is not like old school transmissions where clutches are applied and released quickly, many of it's packs stay applied throughout many gears. The GPZ material is designed for high stress and high heat applications, the blue material is designed for racing which is usually short duration applications. I'm not sure how they would hold up in a street use environment. As for the added frictions I don't want to say too much as I'm in an experimental phase and nothing is proven yet. I will say I've added 2 to some and 1 to others.

 

[4sdvenom]

The blue frictions have been around a long time, the Gen 1 material was very aggressive and used to eat up the steel separator plates. This new Gen 2 material was designed to eliminate that problem. The GPZ material is used in heavy duty commercial use and also in high torque diesel applications. The 10R80 is not like old school transmissions where clutches are applied and released quickly, many of it's packs stay applied throughout many gears. The GPZ material is designed for high stress and high heat applications, the blue material is designed for racing which is usually short duration applications. I'm not sure how they would hold up in a street use environment. As for the added frictions I don't want to say too much as I'm in an experimental phase and nothing is proven yet. I will say I've added 2 to some and 1 to others.

@pro 5.0
Any updates as to how your added clutch count is doing in your 10r80?
Thanks
Ken

 

[pro 5.0]

@pro 5.0
Any updates as to how your added clutch count is doing in your 10r80?
Thanks
Ken

Worked good except for the E clutch pack, with the added frictions the steel plates are too thin to with stand the heat. The rest were mint as per the pic.

 

[CORNYOTE]

Worked good except for the E clutch pack, with the added frictions the steel plates are too thin to with stand the heat. The rest were mint as per the pic.

Are you running an auxiliary cooler? I'm going to mount a large trans cooler under the rear of the car and do the thermostat bypass. The thermostat on these things from what I understand opens at 200 degrees. I'd like to keep the trans at 180-200 and hopefully it'll last. I have the Midnight Stage 2 setup with machining and additional clutches.

 

[pro 5.0]

Are you running an auxiliary cooler? I'm going to mount a large trans cooler under the rear of the car and do the thermostat bypass. The thermostat on these things from what I understand opens at 200 degrees. I'd like to keep the trans at 180-200 and hopefully it'll last. I have the Midnight Stage 2 setup with machining and additional clutches.

The frictions don't like to grab under around 190 deg from what I've seen if the fluid isn't hot enough you will get a flare on shifts. If trans temp was the issue all the clutch packs would be affected not just one, the E pack carries a lot of load hence the heat build up with the thinner steels. I added extra frictions to all the packs and E was the only one that had issues with the thinner steels, from what I know Midnight had issues as well. In the end they only add 1 friction to D & F packs and leave the rest stock count. Honestly the 10R80 is a great trans but if your goal is over 900 whp and a racing environment you will have continuous issues no matter who builds it.

 

[CORNYOTE]

The frictions don't like to grab under around 190 deg from what I've seen if the fluid isn't hot enough you will get a flare on shifts. If trans temp was the issue all the clutch packs would be affected not just one, the E pack carries a lot of load hence the heat build up with the thinner steels. I added extra frictions to all the packs and E was the only one that had issues with the thinner steels, from what I know Midnight had issues as well. In the end they only add 1 friction to D & F packs and leave the rest stock count. Honestly the 10R80 is a great trans but if your goal is over 900 whp and a racing environment you will have continuous issues no matter who builds it.

That’s odd. Mine has only flared when warm. Manuel at Midnight suggested as big a cooler as possible and when he did my trans last month they added 2 and 3 additional steels and fibers. They have the one 10R80 car at 1400whp holding so maybe they changed something?

 

[pro 5.0]

That’s odd. Mine has only flared when warm. Manuel at Midnight suggested as big a cooler as possible and when he did my trans last month they added 2 and 3 additional steels and fibers. They have the one 10R80 car at 1400whp holding so maybe they changed something?

A larger capacity cooler is always beneficial, you are limited to how thin you can go on the steels before they start to heat up and warp. Maybe Midnight has changed some things around but I saw first hand pic's of the clutch packs that came out of the 7 sec car after those runs and it wasn't good to say the least.

 

[Dominant1]

Stang mode and zander-13 have clutches in their 10r80’s with 900-1k whp they last a few months. If you insist on the 10r80 you need to get a midnight performance build, they’ve been into the 7’s on a stock gen3 motor, and their 10r80 built trans is holding it well.

 

[4sdvenom]

Stang mode and zander-13 have clutches in their 10r80’s with 900-1k whp they last a few months. If you insist on the 10r80 you need to get a midnight performance build, they’ve been into the 7’s on a stock gen3 motor, and their 10r80 built trans is holding it well.

Curious if that was after what the post above you is inferring? if they’re only lasting a few months before needing replacements then I would say they are less than reliable for anything street driven on a regular basis. Trust me I want something that works long term and reliably for the 10r because thats one of the biggest reasons I want an 18+ Mustang GT and not looking for my ”I really want car“ a GT350. To much work and issues to solve to swap in a 10r80 at this time unfortunately.

 

[Dominant1]

In both instances their cars broke at the track wot. My understanding is that midnight performance has somehow figured out how to pack more clutches and steels into the trans making it bullet proof.

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