10R80 Owners - ULTIMATE M6G 10R80 Facts + Resolutions to harsh or no shift conditions

[codereddew]

Pretty sure there's only one part number for it - JL3Z-7A100-B
We got a new trans filter we did at the same time but that's all. It technically will drive okay without the solenoid codes being updated, and some tuners will tell you all you need to do is a trans relearn procedure off the nguage but it will cause you sporatic issues without doing the IDS update.

Is there a way to determine if we have the IDS update? I just got my car a few weeks ago (used 2020 base GT A10, ~3k miles) and it sometimes has erratic shift patterns with occasional hard shifts into gear (rarely) but not anything like a hard jolt from P/R->D or vice versa.

Also I have ~1 sec delay when shifting between drive/reverse which I presume is normal?

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[Det_Riot]

Is there a way to determine if we have the IDS update? I just got my car a few weeks ago (used 2020 base GT A10, ~3k miles) and it sometimes has erratic shift patterns with occasional hard shifts into gear (rarely) but not anything like a hard jolt from P/R->D or vice versa.

Also I have ~1 sec delay when shifting between drive/reverse which I presume is normal?

The IDS update isn’t a normal software update, it’s only to update the solenoid strategies based off the new valve body. If you didn’t replace the valve body there’s no reason to update that.

I don’t know about how the 20’s work or
What actual calibration they receive from factory.

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

The IDS update isn’t a normal software update, it’s only to update the solenoid strategies based off the new valve body. If you didn’t replace the valve body there’s no reason to update that.

I don’t know about how the 20’s work or
What actual calibration they receive from factory.

I had a friend with a 2020 A10 base, Twin Turbo go out in dead of night....start his car after setting days....immediately back up and immediately pull forward zero warm up time zero..sent me a video...also his 2020 has the new revisions including the harmonic balancer and he has no tick with 15k or so on it and several 700whp trips down the strip....

I think your fairly safe in 2020

 

[Alan2955]

I had a friend with a 2020 A10 base, Twin Turbo go out in dead of night....start his car after setting days....immediately back up and immediately pull forward zero warm up time zero..sent me a video...also his 2020 has the new revisions including the harmonic balancer and he has no tick with 15k or so on it and several 700whp trips down the strip....

I think your fairly safe in 2020

Nope. Mine was a 2020 and so were a couple others I test drove. None shifted well. I dumped it for a used 2018 Audi A5 convertible. It has a dual clutch automatic. The type transmission that’s noted for being rough. I’ve driven it 1800 miles and the transmission is a dream. Go figure. The Mustangs I’ve driven were ALL sub par shifting to ANY automatic I’ve owned. And I’ve had a bunch. 25 or so. Plus driven company cars and parents cars. Never seen anything like the Ford 10 speed. I hope they fix it eventually. Friend bought a 2021 Camaro with the very similar transmission and it shifts great. What is wrong at Ford??

 

[Gregs24]

Nope. Mine was a 2020 and so were a couple others I test drove. None shifted well. I dumped it for a used 2018 Audi A5 convertible. It has a dual clutch automatic. The type transmission that’s noted for being rough. I’ve driven it 1800 miles and the transmission is a dream. Go figure. The Mustangs I’ve driven were ALL sub par shifting to ANY automatic I’ve owned. And I’ve had a bunch. 25 or so. Plus driven company cars and parents cars. Never seen anything like the Ford 10 speed. I hope they fix it eventually. Friend bought a 2021 Camaro with the very similar transmission and it shifts great. What is wrong at Ford??

To be fair mine is seamless in it's shifting and better than my wife's Powershift box on her Kuga (Escape). DSG's have their own little foibles as well mind !

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

Nope. Mine was a 2020 and so were a couple others I test drove. None shifted well. I dumped it for a used 2018 Audi A5 convertible. It has a dual clutch automatic. The type transmission that’s noted for being rough. I’ve driven it 1800 miles and the transmission is a dream. Go figure. The Mustangs I’ve driven were ALL sub par shifting to ANY automatic I’ve owned. And I’ve had a bunch. 25 or so. Plus driven company cars and parents cars. Never seen anything like the Ford 10 speed. I hope they fix it eventually. Friend bought a 2021 Camaro with the very similar transmission and it shifts great. What is wrong at Ford??

What's weird is it shares a lot with the ZF8HP70 aka the dodge scat pack 8 speed trans. THAT trans is butter and responds to paddles way faster....
Our 10r80 is SAME gears minus the 2 that are missing, it even uses the same 4 planetary gear sets, down to the amount of teeth.....
Its also been optimized with short small circuits and large shift solenoids to shift DCT level fast ( though obviously it can't hold one gear as it starts another ) uses a 3 clutch arrangement, I love the off axis replaceable from pan front pump thats directly fed by a large orifice filter...
I think its problems are derived almost solely from the valvebody and programming, Lund for example can only do for you what the Ford strategies let em they don't use a custom OS...modifying a whipple/roush tune is better in that regard because once flashed they DO use their OWN OS.....
Hate to say it but like the engine its also down to revision or QC....my trans when build only 2 of the 6 clutch groups were in spec...the drum was so tight that pressure plates ect had to be machined to meet the minimum clearance for each clutch grouping....
Now this is a known variance and normally the tech can simply use the chart and chose 6 different thickness of snap rings per group. This is called selective parts groups...well two things...
1. Those weren't enough for my trans...even a tech at Ford walking over to parts counter would have found it hard to rebuild my trans stock as his selective parts ordered weren't enough range...think on that there is so much variance each clutch group alone has a range of 6 thickness of snap rings....
2. That kinda variance while good they supply parts to bring most into compliance does point to wildly different clearances and its partially why owners bone stock have wildly different experiences. In addition the part numbers for these FORD selective parts numbers supplied by Raybestos ( maker for McCloud just buy em from them ), aren't even valid anymore...not that they cross to a new number, they are simply bad numbers now...then when you do get the correct number its been superceded to a newer number....aka my trans is at least 3 revisions in, the Raybestos pack no longer was drop in and I has to reverse look up each selective part ( which had superceded a previous number AND that number at some point superceded the original part numbers that Raybestos/McCloud clutches used so long ago THEY are now BAD numbers not even crossable in the ford system, and if you Google search them your just lead back to the original PDF you will get no hits from Ford parts giant ect....)

This could be a really good transmission with some support...it has great features....it need more clutch area in both the transmission and its lockup ( you will notice the MACH I is using a new converter ), with this clutch upgrade its a miracle that it will hold a 1000whp and not break a single hard part....its all billet internally....
I think they really need to invest some time in their shift strategies and programming...I think its going to be around a while........in theory and when you get a good one it adds benefit from everything from ecoboost mustangs to suvs....its nearly a CVT...

 

[filipradenovic]

After two weeks of driving with the new valve body, I wanted to make another update.

To summarize, I had low trans fluid, valve body change, adaptive strategies update, another valve body change, in that order, over a course of 6 months. I was/am thinking of initiating a buy back.

When I got my car 2 weeks ago, it was jerky on the way home, but I wanted to let it learn my habits. And really, it is noticeably better now (fingers crossed that I dont jinx it). The shifting is very smooth, its better when it does 3-4-5 than 3-5, but I guess that is to expect. When it skips gears, ie, 1-3 and 3-5 is the only place where I actually feel the shifting, the rest is hard to even notice. Downshifting to a stop is smooth as well, no jerks. P to R, R to D, D to R, all good. Engagement after going from R to D is fast (6 months ago it was longer than 3s).

Maybe I was just very unlucky and got 2 bad valve bodies, I hope that was it, and that this will be the end of it. I love the car, I don't want to sell it back to Ford, I guess I have a weird emotional connection to it. Mustang is the car I promised myself I will get, and that was when I was 6 yo, growing up in a war torn Balkan. And then I reached a state in my life where it was actually cheap for me to get it. I hope this sentimentality doesn't bite me in the a**.

I am going on 500 mile drive on Sunday, and then back in a week, and I will make up my final mind about the transmission issue during this roadtrip.

Off topic: Somebody stole all 4 center wheel caps from my car. Is this common? Who would steals this? How much can you even sell those used? I hope it was kids, I would forgive that.

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

After two weeks of driving with the new valve body, I wanted to make another update.

To summarize, I had low trans fluid, valve body change, adaptive strategies update, another valve body change, in that order, over a course of 6 months. I was/am thinking of initiating a buy back.

When I got my car 2 weeks ago, it was jerky on the way home, but I wanted to let it learn my habits. And really, it is noticeably better now (fingers crossed that I dont jinx it). The shifting is very smooth, its better when it does 3-4-5 than 3-5, but I guess that is to expect. When it skips gears, ie, 1-3 and 3-5 is the only place where I actually feel the shifting, the rest is hard to even notice. Downshifting to a stop is smooth as well, no jerks. P to R, R to D, D to R, all good. Engagement after going from R to D is fast (6 months ago it was longer than 3s).

Maybe I was just very unlucky and got 2 bad valve bodies, I hope that was it, and that this will be the end of it. I love the car, I don't want to sell it back to Ford, I guess I have a weird emotional connection to it. Mustang is the car I promised myself I will get, and that was when I was 6 yo, growing up in a war torn Balkan. And then I reached a state in my life where it was actually cheap for me to get it. I hope this sentimentality doesn't bite me in the a**.

I am going on 500 mile drive on Sunday, and then back in a week, and I will make up my final mind about the transmission issue during this roadtrip.

Off topic: Somebody stole all 4 center wheel caps from my car. Is this common? Who would steals this? How much can you even sell those used? I hope it was kids, I would forgive that.

Where you a 2018 or 2019?

 

[filipradenovic]

Also I have ~1 sec delay when shifting between drive/reverse which I presume is normal?

I was told by two different Ford dealerships that it has to be >3s for them to consider it a symptom of something wrong. At the beginning of my issues, mine was often over 3s, and honestly 3s seems to be a very high threshold. I think I would start to get bothered around 2s.

It is bellow 1s for me now.

 

[filipradenovic]

These are probably new or looking like new? I checked, it would cost me ~80$ to get new ones at dealership, I'll do that probably.

My concern is, what kind of person steals 20$x4 worth of center caps? Mine had to have looked used up, they cannot pass as new. So, that person is gonna earn at most 50$ total, likely much less.

 

[filipradenovic]

After two weeks of driving with the new valve body, I wanted to make another update.

To summarize, I had low trans fluid, valve body change, adaptive strategies update, another valve body change, in that order, over a course of 6 months. I was/am thinking of initiating a buy back.

When I got my car 2 weeks ago, it was jerky on the way home, but I wanted to let it learn my habits. And really, it is noticeably better now (fingers crossed that I dont jinx it). The shifting is very smooth, its better when it does 3-4-5 than 3-5, but I guess that is to expect. When it skips gears, ie, 1-3 and 3-5 is the only place where I actually feel the shifting, the rest is hard to even notice. Downshifting to a stop is smooth as well, no jerks. P to R, R to D, D to R, all good. Engagement after going from R to D is fast (6 months ago it was longer than 3s).

I am going on 500 mile drive on Sunday, and then back in a week, and I will make up my final mind about the transmission issue during this roadtrip.

I did 1000+ miles in the last week, and the car seems to be acting up again. Its definetely not as bad as before but I get some harsh shifts and harsh downshifts to a stop here and there. S mode is harsh. I will call on Monday and go to dealership again.

If I opt for a lemon law replacement, what do they do until I get my car, which might be in 2021. Can I get my car from dealership to drive in the meantime, or a rental, or nothing?

edit: is there a thread on lemon law experiences to learn more?

 

[mustangpegasus51]

I did 1000+ miles in the last week, and the car seems to be acting up again. Its definetely not as bad as before but I get some harsh shifts and harsh downshifts to a stop here and there. S mode is harsh. I will call on Monday and go to dealership again.

If I opt for a lemon law replacement, what do they do until I get my car, which might be in 2021. Can I get my car from dealership to drive in the meantime, or a rental, or nothing?

edit: is there a thread on lemon law experiences to learn more?

I don't have the link off the top of my head but there is a LL thread.

Options are, in their simplest form:

Collateral swap where you simply exchange keys between new/old car at a dealer with what I assume would be some paperwork.

Repurchase where you drop off the car and get a check for the full price of the car (minus any loan payoff.)

I did the second option due to likely covid-based low inventory. I was allowed to keep my car until I secured my new one. (I assume there's *some* time limit to this, but it's likely generous, as you don't get the check until they have the car.) The check is also at whatever dealership you decide to drop off at.

Only issue with what I did is that when applying for a new loan it looked like I was trying to own two Mustangs at once, which I can't realistically afford and likely affected my interest rate.

 

[Adamone92]

What's weird is it shares a lot with the ZF8HP70 aka the dodge scat pack 8 speed trans. THAT trans is butter and responds to paddles way faster....
Our 10r80 is SAME gears minus the 2 that are missing, it even uses the same 4 planetary gear sets, down to the amount of teeth.....
Its also been optimized with short small circuits and large shift solenoids to shift DCT level fast ( though obviously it can't hold one gear as it starts another ) uses a 3 clutch arrangement, I love the off axis replaceable from pan front pump thats directly fed by a large orifice filter...
I think its problems are derived almost solely from the valvebody and programming, Lund for example can only do for you what the Ford strategies let em they don't use a custom OS...modifying a whipple/roush tune is better in that regard because once flashed they DO use their OWN OS.....
Hate to say it but like the engine its also down to revision or QC....my trans when build only 2 of the 6 clutch groups were in spec...the drum was so tight that pressure plates ect had to be machined to meet the minimum clearance for each clutch grouping....
Now this is a known variance and normally the tech can simply use the chart and chose 6 different thickness of snap rings per group. This is called selective parts groups...well two things...
1. Those weren't enough for my trans...even a tech at Ford walking over to parts counter would have found it hard to rebuild my trans stock as his selective parts ordered weren't enough range...think on that there is so much variance each clutch group alone has a range of 6 thickness of snap rings....
2. That kinda variance while good they supply parts to bring most into compliance does point to wildly different clearances and its partially why owners bone stock have wildly different experiences. In addition the part numbers for these FORD selective parts numbers supplied by Raybestos ( maker for McCloud just buy em from them ), aren't even valid anymore...not that they cross to a new number, they are simply bad numbers now...then when you do get the correct number its been superceded to a newer number....aka my trans is at least 3 revisions in, the Raybestos pack no longer was drop in and I has to reverse look up each selective part ( which had superceded a previous number AND that number at some point superceded the original part numbers that Raybestos/McCloud clutches used so long ago THEY are now BAD numbers not even crossable in the ford system, and if you Google search them your just lead back to the original PDF you will get no hits from Ford parts giant ect....)

This could be a really good transmission with some support...it has great features....it need more clutch area in both the transmission and its lockup ( you will notice the MACH I is using a new converter ), with this clutch upgrade its a miracle that it will hold a 1000whp and not break a single hard part....its all billet internally....
I think they really need to invest some time in their shift strategies and programming...I think its going to be around a while........in theory and when you get a good one it adds benefit from everything from ecoboost mustangs to suvs....its nearly a CVT...

? I thought lund does use their own OS. thats how they can send you a tune before your device even gets to you.

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