Sponsored

10HP Loss, Not compression! Real reason exposed with Dyno Proof

steathv

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
70
Reaction score
75
Location
Lynchburg, VA
First Name
Chris
Vehicle(s)
2022 California Special
When you say the MAF tube diameters are the same between the '22 and '21, did you actually measure the inside diameter? I am curious due to the insert (airflow straightener). A few millimeters between the two can throw off the MAF readings against the calibration.
There does not appear to be an insert for the straightener it is built into the tube wall or pressed in.
Sponsored

 

VelR5.0GT

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
23
Reaction score
17
Location
IL
Vehicle(s)
2016 F150 5.0, 2022 Mustang GT
There is one. Just like the Mach 1. Another member took it off on his but his car was already tuned and still acted funny.
 

Dfeeds

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Threads
23
Messages
1,447
Reaction score
1,229
Location
Illinois, US
First Name
Dan
Vehicle(s)
1997 Mustang (5.0 HO swap), 2019 Mustang GT PP1
Then there’s this: (see post #2)

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...ut-the-2022-having-less-hp-and-torque.179646/

Kinda makes you want to say “ok, maybe but so what?”

On the other hand it does kinda beg the question if a stock 22 runs pretty much the same as a stock 21, if you lose the 22’s HC filter will it then be stronger than a stock 21?

Stranger things have happened. And far as I can tell, the post above is the closest thing we’ve seen so far to someone actually timing a 22 on the strip.
Driver skill and DA would affect the time more than that 10 hp ever would. Hell, the driver's weight would be a more significant factor than the 10 hp difference.

To that extent (and per your question), in a vacuum, if the 21 MY runs .1 sec faster than the 22 MY due to the 10 hp, logic would dictate that an increase of 10 hp for the 22 is only good for one tenth of a second.
 

Bikeman315

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Threads
520
Messages
15,243
Reaction score
19,264
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
First Name
Ira
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang GT/CS, 2021 Volvo XC60
Driver skill and DA would affect the time more than that 10 hp ever would. Hell, the driver's weight would be a more significant factor than the 10 hp difference.

To that extent (and per your question), in a vacuum, if the 21 MY runs .1 sec faster than the 22 MY due to the 10 hp, logic would dictate that an increase of 10 hp for the 22 is only good for one tenth of a second.
Oh no, you used the “l” word. You may get banned for that! :cwl: :crackup: :like:
 

2022 Mach 1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2022
Threads
17
Messages
879
Reaction score
1,659
Location
Brentwood ca
First Name
Cameron
Vehicle(s)
2022 Mach 1...2014 Mustag GT whipple supercharger
20220915_112214.jpg
Screenshot_20220915_112540.jpg
Driver skill and DA would affect the time more than that 10 hp ever would. Hell, the driver's weight would be a more significant factor than the 10 hp difference.

To that extent (and per your question), in a vacuum, if the 21 MY runs .1 sec faster than the 22 MY due to the 10 hp, logic would dictate that an increase of 10 hp for the 22 is only good for one tenth of a second.
Fresh of the street legal drags last night. Track had very little prep. There easily a 10th I left in the first 60 and probably 2 the by the end if I improve to a 1.8x 60ft
This is drag mode nannies off. Leaving of idle. Car 100% stock including the HC trap in place.
 

Sponsored

steathv

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
70
Reaction score
75
Location
Lynchburg, VA
First Name
Chris
Vehicle(s)
2022 California Special
When you say the MAF tube diameters are the same between the '22 and '21, did you actually measure the inside diameter? I am curious due to the insert (airflow straightener). A few millimeters between the two can throw off the MAF readings against the calibration.
I have looked at the air straightner more closely and it is built into the tube and is not an insert. I have driven the car for 75 miles at all sorts of rpms and pulls and monitored the air fuel ratio and the ratio shows nothing abnormal.
 

merlin803

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2022
Threads
13
Messages
162
Reaction score
126
Location
MI
First Name
clay
Vehicle(s)
2023 Mach 1 P0004
Only two days of driving after my filter went missing and no problems.

I did see something that I wasn't expecting, and maybe it's just a huge coincidence but I reset my MPG counter before going to work this morning (same stop & go city driving route as every day and same semi-heavy acceleration - if anything, heavier than normal just to see if there were any unwanted side effects....) and I get home and check the results and was at 21.7 MPG!.

For the past 6 months, I was averaging about 19.4 on my daily driving.

Like I said, may be a coincidence but just thought it was interesting. In any case, the MPG certainly didn't get worse.
 

young at heart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Threads
65
Messages
1,617
Reaction score
2,338
Location
Deep South
Vehicle(s)
20 GT vert A10 / 23 Mach 1 A10 / 23 Mach 1 Tremec
I have looked at the air straightner more closely and it is built into the tube and is not an insert. I have driven the car for 75 miles at all sorts of rpms and pulls and monitored the air fuel ratio and the ratio shows nothing abnormal.
This air straightener you guys are talking about; is it on the 22 Mach 1 or the regular GT? If it’s the GT, can you describe it a little more for me or maybe point me to a pic?

Thanks!
 

steathv

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
70
Reaction score
75
Location
Lynchburg, VA
First Name
Chris
Vehicle(s)
2022 California Special
This air straightener you guys are talking about; is it on the 22 Mach 1 or the regular GT? If it’s the GT, can you describe it a little more for me or maybe point me to a pic?

Thanks!
The GT is what I am referring to.
 

Sponsored

tuf50L

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
125
Reaction score
136
Location
Australia
Vehicle(s)
Order pending
Can you replace the ‘22 GT air box with the M1 air box and connect it up to the original GT intake tube?

I know it’s not a free mod then but still.
 

VelR5.0GT

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
23
Reaction score
17
Location
IL
Vehicle(s)
2016 F150 5.0, 2022 Mustang GT
I have looked at the air straightner more closely and it is built into the tube and is not an insert. I have driven the car for 75 miles at all sorts of rpms and pulls and monitored the air fuel ratio and the ratio shows nothing abnormal.
There is one. Look into this threads and pictures: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/look-what-i-discovered-in-my-22-🤨.179049/

I'm glad that you are not noticing anything crazy, but keep in mind that you don't want your fuel trims to be on the high side because it leaves very little compensation.
 

VelR5.0GT

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
23
Reaction score
17
Location
IL
Vehicle(s)
2016 F150 5.0, 2022 Mustang GT
Only two days of driving after my filter went missing and no problems.

I did see something that I wasn't expecting, and maybe it's just a huge coincidence but I reset my MPG counter before going to work this morning (same stop & go city driving route as every day and same semi-heavy acceleration - if anything, heavier than normal just to see if there were any unwanted side effects....) and I get home and check the results and was at 21.7 MPG!.

For the past 6 months, I was averaging about 19.4 on my daily driving.

Like I said, may be a coincidence but just thought it was interesting. In any case, the MPG certainly didn't get worse.
I'm sure that removing any airflow restriction in the air intake side will show better mpg. There are 3 things with the "22+ carbon trap that I noticed that will decrease airflow. Not only the carbon trap, but the housing is smaller (area) that even the actual engine air filer. This not even counting the bracing on both sides of the carbon trap, and finally the insert which decreases some of the tube inner diameter (maybe 1-2mm) combined with the honeycomb that once you look closely the squares inside are actually fairly thick. I am sure the honeycomb was added for a laminar airflow over the MAF sensor due to the carbon trap/bracing creating turbulence.

It would be great to see both air intakes from the air filter lid to the connection of the throttle body from a '18 to '21 and a '22 placed on a CFM machine to show the differences. I'm sure the "22 will show a measurable decrease in airflow.
 

Hifiguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
62
Reaction score
68
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
Mach 1 Mustang
So I just got done removing the carbon trap off my Mach 1, kept the inner tube.
Why is the intake path different on the GT?

On the mach 1 it's:

Intake filter -> MAF -> Carbon Trap -> throttle body

And from what I understand on the GT:

Intake filter -> Carbon Trap -> Honeycomb grid -> MAF -> throttle body

Why does the Mach 1 not have a honeycomb filter? Is it because the carbon trap is after (downstream) the MAF thus not affecting laminar airflow across the MAF? Consequently, wouldn't MAF scaling be off a little when taking out the carbon trap in the Mach 1 but leaving the inner tube? or is MAF scaling not affected by downstream elements?

So if you remove the carbon trap from the GT, will the MAF readings be slightly off since the filter is upstream? Or is this what the honeycomb filter helps with?
 

tuf50L

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
125
Reaction score
136
Location
Australia
Vehicle(s)
Order pending
So I just got done removing the carbon trap off my Mach 1, kept the inner tube.
Why is the intake path different on the GT?

On the mach 1 it's:

Intake filter -> MAF -> Carbon Trap -> throttle body

And from what I understand on the GT:

Intake filter -> Carbon Trap -> Honeycomb grid -> MAF -> throttle body

Why does the Mach 1 not have a honeycomb filter? Is it because the carbon trap is after (downstream) the MAF thus not affecting laminar airflow across the MAF? Consequently, wouldn't MAF scaling be off a little when taking out the carbon trap in the Mach 1 but leaving the inner tube? or is MAF scaling not affected by downstream elements?

So if you remove the carbon trap from the GT, will the MAF readings be slightly off since the filter is upstream? Or is this what the honeycomb filter helps with?
I was looking to cobble together an OEM intake to eliminate all the carbon traps on a '22 GT using the GT intake tube and Mach 1 airbox.

rjm4nbbcxldemzaxlngi.jpg


2021-ford-mustang_100787655_h.jpg


However, as you say the configuration is slightly different.
Sponsored

 
 




Top