10 Speed Auto or 6 Speed Manual, what say you?

[Arthonon]

The smoothness of the shift, by driving mode, all depends on how you're driving. In Sport and especially Sport +, yes it definitely shifts harder, but it's also expecting you to be in that mode to drive a little harder. Go somewhere secluded, put it in sport + and floor it. You will see how smooth and quick it shifts. At least that's been my experience.

My post was to point out that it seems different for different people. I know it is supposed to learn, but maybe I just don't drive it enough (9000 miles in 2.5 years) for it to settle in.

If I did as you suggest (flooring it in a secluded area) and it was smooth, great, but what if I am driving some twisty roads, speeding up and slowing down? To Norm's point I could make that a smooth shift with a manual, but as I am driving and I slow down for a corner or curve, then speed up, then slow down again for the next one, flooring it is not an option, and the shifts are often hard, even as I am accelerating out of the curve.

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[Qcman17]

I'm not convinced about any automatic always knowing what gear I might want it to be in. Not as long as there is any connection between throttle position and the transmission module's shift logic under any operational mode, and if those things are not kept separate, I'm never going to be happy with it.

Norm

No I wasn't suggesting it is always right I'm merely saying it does a pretty good job for an auto. If I want to be in certain gears at a certain time I use the paddles and then I get to choose much like you do.

I always get a kick out of these threads. No one is going to convince me I should have bought a manual anymore than I could convince someone about the auto. Nor should we. I bought the car I wanted as did the manual owners and it should be that way. In the end we are really debating our own personal likes and dislikes and there is no right or wrong answer.

 

[jrsimon27]

should have made a poll OP but i would get a manual tranny just more fun but it all depends on what you want.

 

[Balr14]

Expanding upon this, how do you feel about DCT's? For that matter, what about manual sequentials? They don't need the clutch after launch, so the driver has the same involvement as any other paddle-shift transmission.

I had a BMW with sequential manual. It was a little strange, but you get used to it. I have also had a DCT in my Porsche and the PDK is supposed to be the best one around. Mine did not have the sport chrono package, it was either basic auto mode or paddles. But, once again it is all in what you get used to. Of all the transmissions currently available, I'll take the ZF 8 speed torque converter auto. It performs great, supports a lot of horsepower and is more reliable than DCTs.

Another observation I have is it seems to me most manufacturers that offer manual transmissions are using transmissions that are considerably inferior to what they used to provide. Even the latest Porsche manual is crap.

 

[TXAG96]

I partially opted for the manual to keep my son from sneaking the car out. He has no concept of why anyone would want a manual trans.

And the Bullitt only come in MT, so there.

 

[friedmud]

I’m nearly 40. Growing up in the midwest watching motor sports in the 80s/90s made an unbreakbale link in my head: fast cars have sticks.

If I’m playing with my son and we’re pretending to drive a car... then I naturally reach out and fake shift as I race through the “gears”.

My first Mustang was a manual (‘96). Then I drove a manual 2002 Subaru WRX for 14 years. That car vintage was SWEET - everything was analog and you felt incredibly connected to the car and road.

Sadly, I had to sell it a few years ago when I moved to Boston and couldn’t justify having two cars (other was an SUV).

Around that same time my Dad bought a used manual 2013 Mustang... and proceeded to build it into a beast. Every time I visited him one of the highlights was going driving. I LOVED it.

Fast forward a few years and I’m in a position to buy a sports car again. I really thought I wanted a Porsche until I test drove one. There was just no “fun”... no “drama”. Sure - it was fast (this was a manual 911 S), but it just didn’t have any excitement to it - and I don’t make enough $$ to afford one that does (like a GT3 RS, etc.).

After crossing Porsche off the list - I knew what I needed... a loud ass, big HP Mustang... with a _stick_. One test drive was all that was needed. It had all of the drama and excitement I could want - and the stick (though not perfect) was just as engaging as it should be.

I have two other cars both automatic SUVs. And while my Ford Edge Sport is hella fun to drive with the paddle shifters... for my dedicated “driving” sports car... I HAD to have the stick.

Get what excites _you_.

You can find me banging gears while thundering down a serpentine road in the mountains...

 

[Norm Peterson]

Expanding upon this, how do you feel about DCT's?

At various times over the past 30 years or so, I've actually thought about what it'd take for me to change my mind on transmission type. Call it the fallout from having had two surgeries on each knee (and a left knee that doesn't have anywhere near its original range of motion). IOW, this isn't a snap response. For now at least, I have zero desire for a DCT except in preference to a conventional automatic or CVT.

There's only a couple of situations I can think of where I'd want one. If I could no longer operate a manual clutch being one, and the other being if I unexpectedly became very competitive at time trialing or some other competitive activity where prize money or contingencies were at stake and I needed a little extra edge. Even then I'd want the automated gear selection gone. As in all of it.

Truth be told, I hope I never have to deal with the first situation, and I don't expect to ever see the second . . .

For that matter, what about manual sequentials? They don't need the clutch after launch, so the driver has the same involvement as any other paddle-shift transmission.

I think the only manual sequential transmissions I've ever operated were on motorcycles, where you still needed to use the clutch for upshifts and downshifts.

But in this situation or in either of the other two I'd much prefer shifting to be accomplished using a console-mounted lever (I'm not a fan of paddles, and I know this from brief but sufficient experience).


Norm

 

[Balr14]

On a related note, Porsche came up with software to allow it to use GPS to predict the PDK shifts and do it for you, in competition. I gather it was quite successful but was declared illegal. Maybe it was just internet BS.

 

[andyturbo2000]

U.K. owner here. Used to manual over here in Blighty and I can honestly say the MT82 6 speed box is the worst box I’ve ever experienced. Driven 100+ manuals...

 

[friedmud]

Here's something I've daydreamed about and don't understand why it doesn't exist: why doesn't anyone keep the stick... but just have it backed by the automatic transmission (with no clutch).

While I love my stick - I don't necessarily love the clutch part. Why can't there be a stick that allows you to select the gear directly (including skipping gears if you like) and the automatic transmission simply does whatever you select?

Even this one "simple" thing would make an "automatic" a lot more palatable to me... I _crave_ that feeling of moving through the gears more than anything.

I know that Porsche is getting pretty close with their "No lift shift" tech... so you can stay on the gas pedal while you use the clutch and stick to change gears....

 

[jwt]

U.K. owner here. Used to manual over here in Blighty and I can honestly say the MT82 6 speed box is the worst box I’ve ever experienced. Driven 100+ manuals...

I'd agree, which is a shame as ford used to build good gearboxes, I've driven Cortinas, Sieras, Granadas, Mondeos MK1 2 and 3. All had good boxes with well thought out gear ratios.

 

[Garfy]

When I first started looking at the 2019 Mustang I went to the local dealer to test drive 5.0 ten speed auto and a 5.0 six speed manual. Having owned an 87 GT 5 speed, I fully expected I'd like the manual more. Well, I walked away shocked knowing with absolute certainty that I'd be getting the 10 speed. It's an engineering masterpiece. When driven hard its unbelievable how the it feels as though you're perpetually in the power band. I liked the 6 speed but I can't afford two GT's so the automatic was the obvious choice.

In short, the 10 speed is a rush I want again and again and again.

.

I have a 2020 GT w/automatic and here's the thing; if you want the best acceleration performance, you can't beat the automatic. In recent years, the automatics have ALWAYS outperformed a manual, even if you had a professional racer driving it. Why? Primarily because with a manual, it is NOT constantly accelerating because between gear shifts the car is just rolling with no power being applied to the wheels. The automatic is always putting power to the wheels even during gear changes (ok, maybe a few microseconds of no accel between shifts). Another factor is the engine is kept in the max torque range because it has many more ratios than a 6 speed manual. Even the Shelbys have discontinued the manuals and you can only get a 7-speed dual clutch auto now (perhaps some of it has to do with the problems they had with the manual not being able to handle the power of the Shelby GT500 powerplant).

Anyway, I'm also thinking that because both GM and Ford worked together in developing the 10-speed auto, hopefully it is a culmination of the best of both worlds; that both companies made sure it was the best they could come up with than they could if they developed it individually. This is the first sign that US makers are learning from the Japan counterparts. Japan automakers don't build everything themselves but rely on independent companies with expertise in an area to build parts for them. Good example is in relays, water pumps, instrument panels, computers, etc. Honda & Toyota for example depend on Aisan, ND, etc. to build these components for them as they have so much expertise in the area. The automakers tell these companies what they want spec-wise and the independents produce what's needed. That's why their cars seem to be so much more reliable with fewer breakdowns than most domestic makes. (One big exception is Takata who made airbags for almost every automaker not only in Japan and US but even Europe as I found out that even Ferrari had some models with Takata airbags.)

 

[Norm Peterson]

So even if the mode you run the transmission in doesn't allow automatic shifts at all, you'd still be opposed to it because it has the potential to shift itself? Even if over the entire time you own the vehicle, it never shifts itself, the ability for it to do so is so abhorrent to you as to make it unacceptable?

What I've read concerning the GT500's DCT is that even in 'M' mode there can be some automated shifts. Downshifting as you slow to a stop appears to be one such condition, and be pulling and holding the left paddle (-) for the lowest allowable gear would be another. While this is only available in Normal and Sport drive modes that's not the same as the transmission's own mode.

Yes, that would still be unacceptable. I can understand that for anybody who is obviously comfortable with automated shifting in general, that may be a difficult thought to fully grasp. You're always going to be thinking 'Why can't he like this?', 'why can't he see this the same way I do?', and 'even those situations aren't big deals'. All I can say to that is that you're just not seeing things from my point of view (no flame intended, but I'm not even sure it's possible). Perhaps the best I can offer is . . . don't be having my cars do things for me that I've been able to cope with in real time all by myself - with great success and enjoyment - for a very long time. Don't be taking a lot away from me and giving back nothing in return that particularly interests me.

Also, the sequential manuals I'm referring to are race transmissions such as in rally cars. The clutch is only used at launch, but every shift after is done with the lever.

If I was racing and that's what it took to win, I'd have to run that kind of transmission. But that'd be a very serious race-only kind of car, something that there's no way I could ever support owning.


Norm

 

[Dan1959]

When I first started looking at the 2019 Mustang I went to the local dealer to test drive 5.0 ten speed auto and a 5.0 six speed manual. Having owned an 87 GT 5 speed, I fully expected I'd like the manual more. Well, I walked away shocked knowing with absolute certainty that I'd be getting the 10 speed. It's an engineering masterpiece. When driven hard its unbelievable how the it feels as though you're perpetually in the power band. I liked the 6 speed but I can't afford two GT's so the automatic was the obvious choice.

In short, the 10 speed is a rush I want again and again and again.

.

I have 2016 GT manual and maybe I got a good one, no issues with the gearbox. I'd consider a twin clutch DCT that does all the work! I rode in a buddies BMW M340! and was very impressed with the 7 speeds performance, it was that good! Until Ford comes up with one I'll stick to shifting my own gears. Started driving stick in 1974 and still love it!

 

[Balr14]

Oh, I totally accept your convictions regarding this topic, I'm just trying to better understand them, not convince you you're wrong. What I don't understand is the assertion that the only way to have fun is to use a manual, and that all the fun live in the clutch pedal. If that were true, any shitbox with a 5-speed would do it. Obviously there's more to it than that. For me it's the acceleration, cornering, and getting better/faster under all conditions. There's a lot more to driving that just shifting gears. For me, pulling a lever just doesn't add to the experience. It changes it, but it isn't better.

That's my feeling as well. I really don't spend a lot of thought on how the car changes gears. If that is your main focus, you need to find a more interesting and engaging car. My first ride in a 911 turbo was one that had the old Tiptronic automatic and I could not have cared less.

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