10 Speed Auto or 6 Speed Manual, what say you?

[friedmud]

If that is your main focus, you need to find a more interesting and engaging car.

See - I think this kind of statement is part of the "problem" (if there even is one). Why can't we all enjoy different aspects of cars? If trying to shift a manual perfectly is one thing that I enjoy about driving a car... that should be completely valid.

I mean, there are SO many things to find an interest in with cars:

1. Power
2. Paint (color, etc.)
3. Wheels
4. Tires
5. Transmission / shifting
6. Aerodynamics (wings / splitters, etc.)
7. Sound
8. Handling
9. Suspension / ride height
10. Breaking
11. Comfort
12. Technology
13. Lighting
etc., etc.

My point is: you can "geek out" about any one of these things... and none of them is inherently "more interesting" than any other. People will naturally gravitate to whatever is most interesting to them.

There are people that will take a car with 100HP that they bought for $5k and put the most awesome paint job and wheels on it... and enjoy the hell out of it... and there's nothing wrong with that.

Me? I personally enjoy the challenge and feel of working my way through a manual gearbox. When I'm _driving_ (like, on-purpose) that's how I want to spend my time. Nothing wrong with that.

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[Intrepid175]

Oh, I totally accept your convictions regarding this topic, I'm just trying to better understand them, not convince you you're wrong. What I don't understand is the assertion that the only way to have fun is to use a manual, and that all the fun live in the clutch pedal. If that were true, any shitbox with a 5-speed would do it. Obviously there's more to it than that. For me it's the acceleration, cornering, and getting better/faster under all conditions. There's a lot more to driving that just shifting gears. For me, pulling a lever just doesn't add to the experience. It changes it, but it isn't better.

For me, the allure of a manual transmission is developing the skills to operate it smoothly and confidently. There's a lot of satisfaction in knowing your car performs well because the "driver" has the skills to make it perform that way. For many, there's not much satisfaction is slapping it in drive, stomping on the gas peddle and hanging on even if you do win the race. My great grandmother could have done that. For me, it's not about being the fastest on the street anymore, although back in the late 60's and early 70's when I learned to drive, any manual transmission car would blow the doors off an automatic, everything else being equal, with just your average driver behind the wheel. That's definitely not the case anymore. It's about the added involvement in the overall driving experience.

I've got a 2016 GT with MT and I very much enjoy the car. This is my first V8 car with a MT and I really wanted to try it. I've driven manuals pretty much from day one. My Dad made sure of that and I've always prided myself on my ability to drive them well. Having said that, I have to admit that my Mustang gave me fits getting a smooth shift out of it for the first month or so. It was very frustrating as I had never had that much trouble adapting but I finally started getting the hang of it. After three years of ownership, I don't even think about it anymore. There's no way I'd deliberately trade the car off just to get the new 10 speed but if I were forced to replace it because of an accident or something, I'd probably be going with the automatic.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Manual, because eventually, you're not gonna go for the fastest times and you'll be on a road where it encourages you to row the gears in a way paddles and the computer won't be to satisify

 

[Jmtoast]

A10 because eventually you’re going to want to take a selfie or take a drink of your mocha frappe latte.

 

[ice445]

U.K. owner here. Used to manual over here in Blighty and I can honestly say the MT82 6 speed box is the worst box I’ve ever experienced. Driven 100+ manuals...

I don't understand this personally, maybe I just have a good one but other than the ratios I think its one of the better manuals I've driven. Two cars I can think of are the 500 Abarth and the VW GTI, they're very popular over there and I think both had way worse manual feel. Same with the Fiesta ST. I prefer tight and notchy over rubbery and vague any day.

 

[Qcman17]

Exactly, people act like shifting a manual is the be-all-end-all of driving, and that anything else just isn't fun. As if there was nothing else in the world to driving/enjoying a car.

Reading some of the posts it sounds like achieving the perfect smooth shift is akin to cracking the Caramilk secret

 

[jwt]

I like driving a manual for my fun car because I like the sense of accomplishment when I am driving the car hard and am involved in the driving more while changing gears. I also like autos for my everyday driving and I really like the A10 in my expedition, I have said it before, but probably the best slush box I have ever driven. Horses for courses and if 3 pedalling rocks your boat awesome and if 2 pedalling works for you cool

Now lets all gang up on the one pedallers driving the Mack-e in one pedal mode

 

[Torino500]

I considered the A10 but couldn't find one optioned the way I wanted it.

I found my 2020 PP1 optioned the way I wanted and grabbed it. I figured this might be my last manual car. There's plenty of time for automatics in the future. Is the A10 faster to 60 and the 1/4? Don't care. I want a manual while I can still have one.

 

[Tellme]

Auto has been faster than manual for a couple decades now so there's no surprise there. My DD is an automatic and I'm very happy with that. However I keep my fun car manual. Simple, easy to repair in comparison. Wait five years from now when those 10-speed autos start shifting slower and rougher as they age like essentially ALL automatic transmissions do.

There is no replacement for shifting your own gears.

 

[ice445]

What the actual fuck are you talking about? Sure, an automatic that isn't serviced for 5 years will have issues, but...so will a manual.

I'll disagree on that one. A non serviced 10 speed will be a mess by 100k. A non serviced manual will run forever as long as it doesn't develop a leak and isn't driven by a gorilla or 5 otters in a trenchcoat. Not that it actually matters, given most people don't keep cars long enough. And the mt82 specifically sometimes commits suicide without any help.

I am interested to see how these gen 3 motors and the a10 age over time and miles though.

 

[Nate_V8]

I love my manual. Autos will always get faster now, not too worried. When I'm tired of shifting I will get whatever crazy auto is available when I'm ready. My MT82 doesn't have any problems now that I have a blowfish bracket installed. I'll be rewarded when I shift perfectly and be punished when I don't. I'm still in the boat of enjoying the skill it takes to work a manual performance car vs push pedal car goes faster. I know I will be there one day but today is not that day. If my tranny breaks then a ben calimer will be going in (unless that's my breaking point also haha)

I look at it in the sense of the car and I are working together to be as fast as possible, if I shift properly, the car is fast vs the car is always at it's fastest with an auto

 

[ice445]

Changing the clutch is part of service. That's a wear item, even if the car is only driven on Sundays by a little old lady from Pasadena. Eventually it will need replacement. I believe "eventually" is less time than "forever", if I've done my math right. I also wouldn't trust the transmission fluid in your perpetual MT-82 either. It'll be more metal shavings than oil after a while. Now queue up everyone who wants to claim they/their dad/uncle Bob once had an old truck/jalopy/Trabant that had the original clutch for 1,000,000 miles...

Okay, I guess you got me there. 150k is a reasonable life time for a non abused clutch though. And I wouldn't trust the factory gear oil to last the life of the car, but Ford claims that it will and most people never change anything but the engine oil. ATF has to work much harder and gets a lot hotter. Plus 10 clutch packs of wear to contend with.

 

[ice445]

If you get 150k out of the clutch in a Mustang, you might be driving a Camry , and I personally have destroyed the clutch in a Camry.

Seriously though, trying to say a manual is better because it can last longer without maintenance is ridiculous. An engine CAN last 100k miles without maintenance. You CAN drive on balding tires and with brakes past the wear bars. You could also skip oil changes, filter changes, and drive with your high beams on if one headlight goes out. Should you though? More importantly, do most people here neglect their maintenance to such extremes?

I'm not claiming that manual is better because it lasts longer. I just think the box itself will last longer all other things being equal. Does it matter? No, of course not. It's simply hypothetical stick jerking, lol.

And you're right, in a performance car 150k on stock clutch is pretty unrealistic unless you actually are grandma Pearl. At least clutches are relatively inexpensive and easy on this platform.

But regardless of any of this, I am curious as to how the A10 holds up over time. Is it going to need babying and frequent fluid changes or will it hold up following the manuals recommended service interval? The enemy of all automagics is HEAT and from what I've seen, the A10 sure makes a lot of it. Fluid temps over 230 degrees are common.

 

[Intrepid175]

If you get 150k out of the clutch in a Mustang, you might be driving a Camry , and I personally have destroyed the clutch in a Camry.

All depends on how you drive it. I had a 2006 Civic that I put 200k miles on before replacing the clutch and the mechanic said it probably had another 10k left in it. Then again, probably 70% of the miles on that Civic were highway miles so the clutch had it pretty easy. As for the Mustang, if you're not burning rubber off of every stop sign and red light, 150k should be a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned, assuming you know how to drive a stick in the first place. I've seen folks who didn't waste a brand new clutch in less the 20k miles. You didn't say how many miles it took you to destroy the clutch in that Camry but knowing Toyota's as most of us do, I'd say you probably weren't being very kind to the car in the first place. That's not a problem with the car, it's a problem with the driver. Personally, I wouldn't be bragging about it.

 

[Intrepid175]

I'm not claiming that manual is better because it lasts longer. I just think the box itself will last longer all other things being equal.

Manual transmissions are relatively simple, mechanically. That means they have less to go wrong. Their metallurgy has improved since the earliest versions and there are a few more gear ratios but the designs are still basically the same. They're proven. Automatics, by their nature are much more complex and that invites problems. To quote a phrase from one of my favorite sci-fi movies, "The more you overtech the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain!" Still, modern automatics are pretty reliable most of the time, but in my experience, the only transmission I ever had a problem with was an automatic so given the option, which unfortunately isn't there for most cars in the US, I'll buy the manual.

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