NoVaGT

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You are just being pedantic now. Obviously they don't have to be plugged in, but that is how most are used around here.
Far from "pedantic", it's about you deliberately acting like certain facts and realities don't matter. About you trying to avoid discussing them.

Like how you're not telling us what PHEV you drive, when asked directly.

No one gives a fuck about "how most are used around here", that's not the topic of fucking discussion. A vehicle either must be plugged into the grid to work, or not. If it's optional, that's an "or not".

Most PHEVs are the lair's way of owning an "EV", which are really EVs in name only. The have tiny battery packs, tiny motors, and extremely limited range. Just enough to get a tax deduction. Like BMW's X5 xDrive 40e, with all of a 14 mile range on battery only. Or the Mercedes GLC 350e, with all of 22 mile range on battery only. Or the Volvo XC60 T8, with a gigantic range of 17 miles. Or the BMW X3 xDrive30e, with an 18 miles of battery range. Or the Porsche Panamera E-Hybrid, with a 14 mile battery range. Or the BMW 740e xDrive, with a 14 battery range.

They're regular ICE vehicles, built with baby EV additions, to get EV tax and licensing deductions. A shinning example is the 2020 Mercedes GLC 350e. It has a huge range of 22 EV miles, and it take 8 hours to recharge it with a 110 line. :cwl: :crackup:

The power PHEVs use is tiny, in comparison to a true EV. And it's completely unnecessary to actually plug them in. Completely optional.

So, to re-iterate, Norway cannot do 20% EVs. They do not have the electrical power production or distribution capacity.
 
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Gregs24

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Far from "pedantic", it's about you deliberately acting like certain facts and realities don't matter. About you trying to avoid discussing them.

Like how you're not telling us what PHEV you drive, when asked directly.

No one gives a fuck about "how most are used around here", that's not the topic of fucking discussion. A vehicle either must be plugged into the grid to work, or not. If it's optional, that's an "or not".

Most PHEVs are the lair's way of owning an "EV", which are really EVs in name only. The have tiny battery packs, tiny motors, and extremely limited range. Just enough to get a tax deduction. Like BMW's X5 xDrive 40e, with all of a 14 mile range on battery only. Or the Mercedes GLC 350e, with all of 22 mile range on battery only. Or the Volvo XC60 T8, with a gigantic range of 17 miles. Or the BMW X3 xDrive30e, with an 18 miles of battery range. Or the Porsche Panamera E-Hybrid, with a 14 mile battery range. Or the BMW 740e xDrive, with a 14 battery range.

They're regular ICE vehicles, built with baby EV additions, to get EV tax and licensing deductions. A shinning example is the 2020 Mercedes GLC 350e. It has a huge range of 22 EV miles, and it take 8 hours to recharge it with a 110 line. :cwl: :crackup:

The power PHEVs use is tiny, in comparison to a true EV. And it's completely unnecessary to actually plug them in. Completely optional.

So, to re-iterate, Norway cannot do 20% actual EVs. They do not have the electrical power production or distribution capacity.
blah blah blah. And once again you assert you know more about Norway than the Norwegians - do you realise just how silly that sounds ! Lets give it 12 months shall we and see what you have to say then Mr Genius of power infrastructure. Maybe you will have had a chance to publish your workings by then :cwl:

We have a Ford Kuga (Escape) PHEV (35 mile electric range)

Those PHEV cars you quote are pretty old and most have been replaced. For example Europe has the BMW X5 45e now with a 54 mile range and the Volvo you mention now has a 33 mile range.

Can't help your poxy 110v infrastructure - we run at 240v in the civilised world :cwl:
 

shogun32

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They've done nothing to increase their production or distribution capabilities.
and as we've also seen in TX, (illegal) influx of population is already over-stressing the electric, water and sewer infrastructure, irrespective of pathologically STUPID decisions in regards to weather hardening.
 

NoVaGT

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blah blah blah. And once again you assert you know more about Norway than the Norwegians - do you realise just how silly that sounds ! Lets give it 12 months shall we and see what you have to say then Mr Genius of power infrastructure. Maybe you will have had a chance to publish your workings by then :cwl:

We have a Ford Kuga (Escape) PHEV (35 mile electric range)

Those PHEV cars you quote are pretty old and most have been replaced. For example Europe has the BMW X5 45e now with a 54 mile range and the Volvo you mention now has a 33 mile range.

Can't help your poxy 110v infrastructure - we run at 240v in the civilised world :cwl:
So....you were stupid enough to buy a vehicle that has been recalled in Europe, because they're burning to the ground during charging.

"Kuga PHEV owners in Europe are advised not to charge their cars and drive them in Auto EV (ICE) mode only."

Yes, neither Norway, nor the Uk, or any part of the EU, can do even 20% EVs. Not until massive investitures (trillions of USD) are made in electrical power production and distribution.

Your precious little roman-candle PHEV (ICE vehicle) is virtually 0 burden on the electrical grid. The load of trickle-charging a tiny batter on 110 is nothing in comparison to charging a true EV (like a Tesla) with 240 or higher volt systems.

One day son. One day you'll actually grasp this. When your lights are dimming and there's rolling black-outs.

Which, I guaran-fucking-tee you, is in your not-too-distant future.
 

Gregs24

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They've done nothing to increase their production or distribution capabilities.
Hate to say it but you are talking complete bol***ks. Norway is, and has been, a nett exporter of electricity for the last 30 years.

Norway - At the end of 2020, about 6.2 TWh of new production capacity was under construction

Electricity production - Energifakta Norge
 

NoVaGT

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Hate to say it but you are talking complete bol***ks. Norway is, and has been, a nett exporter of electricity for the last 30 years.

Norway - At the end of 2020, about 6.2 TWh of new production capacity was under construction

Electricity production - Energifakta Norge
Nothing in that link says they're a "net exporter". And I don't think you know what that means.

A 10% increase (to use round numbers) in EVs in Norway represents 2.8 million more EVs on their electrical grid. If it averages 50Kw to charge each vehicle, and each of those 2.8 million vehicles need to be charged twice a week, that represents......add 4, carry the 9......

That's 14,560,000,000,000 watts, or 14.56 Twh. of additional electrical demand.

Norway has all of an additional 6.2 Twh under construction. Being "under construction" means they don't actually have that electrical production capacity yet. And based on the link you provided, they've had all of about 10 Twh of excess electrical capacity at the end of 2020.

So they currently do not have the electrical power production capacity to get to 20%.

And none of this, not one bit of it, even touches on the topic of electrical energy distribution.
 

Gregs24

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Nothing in that link says they're a "net exporter". And I don't think you know what that means.

A 10% increase (to use round numbers) in EVs in Norway represents 2.8 million more EVs on their electrical grid. If it averages 50Kw to charge each vehicle, and each of those 2.8 million vehicles need to be charged twice a week, that represents......add 4, carry the 9......

That's 14,560,000,000,000 watts, or 14.56 Twh. of additional electrical demand.

Norway has all of an additional 6.2 Twh under construction. Being "under construction" means they don't actually have that electrical production capacity yet. And based on the link you provided, they've had all of about 10 Twh of excess electrical capacity at the end of 2020.

So they currently do not have the electrical power production capacity to get to 20%.

And none of this, not one bit of it, even touches on the topic of electrical energy distribution.
If you read it properly you will find it does. Norway produces more electricity than it needs and sells it to other countries - pretty simple. They currently have around 13% surplus production per year.

Normalized production and consumption of electricity 1990-2020, TWh


1614105720089.png


If you think that those calculations you have done are appropriate to predict and plan an electricity supply system you are genuinely deluded. If you went into a board meeting with that in your hand the laughter would ring out as you collected your belongings and left your desk. :cwl:

Oh and it is rubbish anyway because there are only 2.8 million cars in total in Norway, so even if your hilarious figures were true it would only be 10% of 2.8 million or 1.5 of your TwH.

Plenty of capacity as you would expect from a country that is capable of detailed planning and implementation. I'm glad there are no Norwegians on here because your assumptions about what they are capable of are genuinely insulting.
 

Norm Peterson

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Oh and it is rubbish anyway because there are only 2.8 million cars in total in Norway
IOW, about half as many cars as people. That's a good enough estimate for me.

But when you look at how that population (and presumably an approximation of how those 2.8M cars are distributed) it's just as far from uniform there as it is in the USA. What's good for the more densely populated areas isn't necessarily good for the less densely populated areas.

1614177354995.png


Plenty of capacity as you would expect from a country that is capable of detailed planning and implementation. I'm glad there are no Norwegians on here because your assumptions about what they are capable of are genuinely insulting.
Let's just say it's easier to plan for a small population than for a much larger one.


Something that hit my mailbox this morning . . . EV Share In US Reaches Record Levels In 2020 (shopownermag.com) Boldface mine for the necessary identification of an acronym.
By Shop Owner Staff on Feb 23, 2021

Electric vehicle (EV) registrations in the U.S. in 2020 reached record market share of 1.8%, demonstrating increased consumer interest for electric vehicles, according to new analysis from IHS Markit, a world leader in information, analytics and solutions. December 2020 also represented the highest monthly share for EV new registrations, at 2.5% of the industry – a record monthly level since IHS Markit began tracking new vehicle registration data by fuel type. For the purposes of this analysis, EVs reflect those vehicles only powered by electricity and no other power source.

While overall registration volumes were down across the industry for the year due to COVID-19 impacts, the fact that EVs experienced such increased share indicates rising consumer acceptance of EVs. In fact, from a retail perspective, EVs accounted for 2.8% of new vehicle registrations in December, according to the analysis, more than tripling EV retail share three years ago. This rising EV acceptance coincides with recent OEM announcements of substantial investments in electrification.
It's important to note that EV acceptance in the USA (see below) is far from uniform. Note that it's the places with large cities where EV registrations are at their highest . . . and not to put too fine a point on it or anything, I wouldn't ever want to live in any true city . . . never mind San Fran, NYC, DC, or Chicago.

From a regional perspective, EV market share is highest in the Western Region, where 4.8% of all new vehicles registered are electric vehicles. The San Francisco DMA’s EV share of 11% far exceeds that of any other major Designated Market Area (DMA) in the Western Region. EV market share is 1.6% in the Northeast, the second highest region on this metric, and the New York City DMA’s share of 2% is driving the Northeast. In the Southeast, just 1.1% of 2020 new vehicle registrations were electric vehicles, and the Washington, D.C., DMA is leading the way at 2.5% during the same time period. The Southwest Region EV share was just .9% in 2020, while Austin was the top DMA with a 2.1% EV market share. Lastly, the Midwest region had the smallest EV market share in 2020 at just .8%. Predictably, Chicago led all other Midwest DMAs with a 1.5% EV market share.

Norm
 

Gregs24

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Let's just say it's easier to plan for a small population than for a much larger one.


Norm
Possibly, but everything is proportional. Maybe population density is more realistic as a arbiter as it would probably be more difficult to provide for a small population in a big area?

Didn't help Texas which has about half the population of the UK !
 

shogun32

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Note that it's the places with large cities where EV registrations are at their highest
extremely affluent areas where 'virtue signaling' is looked upon as a desirable social good. Break it down by household income, miles traveled per year, total cars owned by household, and political affiliation and I think you'll find it is HEAVILY skewed in one direction.

 

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