2017 PCOTY. Not the ZL1 1LE.

cosmo · Jan 10, 2018

Hack said:
If a car has a superior chassis it can perform better without having to have suspension so stiff as to be difficult to live with.

I don't think the Camaro actually has a superior chassis. I haven't seen any evidence to convince me there is anything better about the Camaro chassis versus that of the Mustang.

Can you give me any info that demonstrates undoubtably the chassis is better on the Camaro? Anything other than a statement from the manufacturer or word of mouth?

jake_zx2 said:
According to this (link at the end) website, which claims to take all it's numbers from credible sources, the torsional rigidity of a Cadillac ATS is 29,000 NM/Deg. now, I know it's a different car, but it's the same chassis, and I would imagine that since the Camaro is a 2 door sports car, it would be even more rigid. But for the sake of pure numbers, we'll stick with 29,000 NM/Deg. The same listing does not have a figure for the S550, however it does have a figure for an S197 coupe, which comes in at 21,000 NM/Deg.
http://youwheel.com/home/2016/06/20/car-body-torsional-rigidity-a-comprehensive-list/

Now, using the information from this (link at the end) forum post, Ford reports a 19% increase in Torsional rigidity over the outgoing chassis. Therefore, 21,000 + (21,000 x .19) = 25,000 NM/Deg vs the ATS's 29,000. Now, converting NM to FREEDOM UNITS (Go America), that's a 2950.25 ft/lb per degree difference between the 2, with the ATS having the advantage. That's a pretty significant advantage. https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15917

Like I said in a previous post, I'd say that GM has the advantage when it comes to chassis development just because they got to design a clean slate car using modern technology. However, I think Ford is better at working with what they're given, which is why Mustangs have the ability to match and even surpass the superior chassis car. I think that if Ford engineers were given the opportunity to pump out an all new chassis, they would be able to come up with something truly spectacular.

Cheers! :cheers:

See above. Best anyone is going to get.

EDIT: Later in that thread it was clarified the % increase was 31% for the S550, leading to 27510 Nm/Deg for the S550 vs the 29000 NM/Deg for the ATS.

Benjj · Jan 10, 2018

Hah.... what a salty topic

I can picture you guys typing really angry at your computers like “ya, we showed those slowmaro guys”:clap2::clap2:

Hack · Jan 10, 2018

Benjj said:
Hah.... what a salty topic

I can picture you guys typing really angry at your computers like “ya, we showed those slowmaro guys”:clap2::clap2:

I've mostly been waiting for the first guy to call in all his buddies from Camaro6 and gang up.

Childs Play · Jan 10, 2018

Hack said:
I've mostly been waiting for the first guy to call in all his buddies from Camaro6 and gang up.

Present and accounted for!

But really. It seems on any forum you go to, the magazine is biased when they don't pick your car, but spot on when they do.

I'd take a GT350 or ZL1 1LE over the McLaren any day. But that could be just me.

And it would only be for the track.

I'm guessing the ZL1 1LE lost based mostly on the fact that it's ridiculously uncomfortable to drive on anything but perfect streets. I've never ridden in a GT350 so I can't speak on that. I'm guessing it's probably slightly more female/fat american friendly.

I'm more impressed with the Honda Civic Type R getting bronze...

garagelogic · Jan 10, 2018

Benjj said:
Hah.... what a salty topic

I can picture you guys typing really angry at your computers like “ya, we showed those slowmaro guys”:clap2::clap2:

I’m confused. Why would you think anyone is angry? I can’t speak for other posters in the thread, but GM engineering a Camaro that offers better performance metrics than what any Mustang currently offers has zero impact on my life or my emotional state-of-being.

I merely posted my observation that the ZL1 1LE failed to do what the GT350R was able to do; win it’s PCOTY competition. I didn't suggest the 1LE couldn’t outperform the R on a track or otherwise compare the two cars. It’s the Camaro cheerleaders that felt the need to beat that drum. Seems like they’re the angry keyboard warriors here.

Childs Play · Jan 10, 2018

garagelogic said:
I’m confused. Why would you think anyone is angry? I can’t speak for other posters in the thread, but GM engineering a Camaro that offers better performance metrics than what any Mustang currently offers has zero impact on my life or my emotional state-of-being.

I merely posted my observation that the ZL1 1LE failed to do what the GT350R was able to do; win it’s PCOTY competition. I didn't suggest the 1LE couldn’t outperform the R on a track or otherwise compare the two cars. It’s the Camaro cheerleaders that felt the need to beat that drum. Seems like they’re the angry keyboard warriors here.

But but but they didn't run them on the same day with the same temperature and same driver. :ninja:

garagelogic · Jan 10, 2018

Childs Play said:
But but but they didn't run them on the same day with the same temperature and same driver.

Again, the GT350R won it’s PCOTY competition using whatever parameters Road & Track settled on. The ZL1 1LE came in 2nd in it’s PCOTY competition using whatever parameters RT used. How many ways do I need to say I was not comparing the GT350R to the ZL1 1LE before it sinks in with some people?

bluebeastsrt · Jan 10, 2018

I think the ZL1 that the magazines are testing. Are ringers!!!!

Childs Play · Jan 10, 2018

garagelogic said:
Again, the GT350R won it’s PCOTY competition using whatever parameters Motor Trend settled on. The ZL1 1LE came in 2nd in it’s PCOTY competition using whatever parameters MT used. How many ways do I need to say I was not comparing the GT350R to the ZL1 1LE before it sinks in with some people?

C'mon man... I was joking... :brokenheart:

Also. Wasn't this a Road and Track test..?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/pcoty-2018/

garagelogic · Jan 10, 2018

Childs Play said:
C'mon man... I was joking...

Also. Wasn't this a Road and Track test..?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/pcoty-2018/

Yes, R&T.:doh:

millhouse · Jan 10, 2018

Hack said:
Here's to hoping the new Ford doesn't shake the driver's fillings out or cause back injuries.

+1, from all of the reviews the ZL1 1LE is utter garbage on public roads. I think Ford realizes a majority don't buy these cars for exclusive track duty.

02gtnh · Jan 10, 2018

millhouse said:
+1, from all of the reviews the ZL1 1LE is utter garbage on public roads. I think Ford realizes a majority don't buy these cars for exclusive track duty.

That’s what the ZL1 if for. The 1le is a pretty much a track only car with little road use and GM clearly said that. That’s why so few will be made.:cheers:

garagelogic · Jan 10, 2018

02gtnh said:
That’s what the ZL1 if for. The 1le is a pretty much a track only car with little road use and GM clearly said that. That’s why so few will be made.:cheers:

But, unfortunately, only a very small percentage of those will ever see a track. Most will sit in some collector’s garage hoping they will be worth more than they paid for it 30 years down the road or simply being brought out to car shows by automotive narcissists. If you’re going to go to the trouble of buying a performance car, you should drive it, IMO.

millhouse · Jan 10, 2018

02gtnh said:
That’s what the ZL1 if for. The 1le is a pretty much a track only car with little road use and GM clearly said that. That’s why so few will be made.:cheers:

Which is why Ford will never put out anything that competes with the ZL1 1LE. They know who their customers are, and the vast majority care if their car drives so harsh that it rattles their fillings loose. The 350R in comparison in FAR more compliant and (unlike the ZL1 1LE) daily drive-able.

garagelogic said:
But, unfortunately, only a very small percentage of those will ever see a track. Most will sit in some collector’s garage hoping they will be worth more than they paid for it 30 years down the road or simply being brought out to car shows by automotive narcissists. If you’re going to go to the trouble of buying a performance car, you should drive it, IMO.

Yup, or most will be driven a few times on the road until the owners realize what utterly useless street car they purchased.

02gtnh · Jan 10, 2018

garagelogic said:
But, unfortunately, only a very small percentage of those will ever see a track. Most will sit in some collector’s garage hoping they will be worth more than they paid for it 30 years down the road or simply being brought out to car shows by automotive narcissists. If you’re going to go to the trouble of buying a performance car, you should drive it, IMO.

Like those who buy a 350r. How many of those see a track? I will admit tho, those that I have seen that bought the zl1 1le do track them. I don’t think any believe these cars will hold value that buy them. The 350r tho, people do believe they will hold or increase. :thumbsup:

2017 PCOTY. Not the ZL1 1LE.

cosmo

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Benjj

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Hack

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Childs Play

But Wait! There's More!

garagelogic

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Childs Play

But Wait! There's More!

garagelogic

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bluebeastsrt

Oh boy

Childs Play

But Wait! There's More!

garagelogic

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millhouse

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02gtnh

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garagelogic

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millhouse

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02gtnh

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