Stock GT Mani vs F150 Mani Dyno

Mine is a daily and will never see a track. The midrange difference is worth the minimum cost of the swap. I have only done data log tuning via the net. Car feels real good and has created more fun on accel. Glad I have an extra set of rears in the garage.

EFI said:

Not everyone lives their lives 1/4 mile at a time, there are other forms of "racing" that don't involve 1/4 mile strips. And for those other forms of racing, this manifold with it's better midrange torque will perform better overall than than the OEM GT manifold.

The answer to going faster is not always "downshift". In those other forms of racing, one will lose significant amount of time constantly downshifting and upshifting to stay in the peaky powerband rather than be in the same gear the whole time with a nice meaty flat powerband.

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Funny, I don’t see a whole lot of diesels ruling the roost at the local autocross.

The problem with what you are trying to elude to is that the F150 manifold doesn’t provide any advantage. It’s pulling the powerband down in the RPM range and losing horsepower across the board. If the F150 powerband range was increased….I could possibly see your point. The problem is, it’s not. Midrange torque is useless at any type of track event if the gearing of the vehicle is such that it allows you to stay in the higher RPM powerband. Point in case…the GT350. Anyone that is complaining about the low end torque is completely missing the point of the GT350. The powerband is HUGE, it just happens to be higher in the RPM range.

I’m sorry to say, better mid-range torque (at the sacrifice of top end power) is only good for those too lazy to downshift. Anyone that knows how to stay in the powerband isn’t going to be faster at the dragstrip or at the autocross. I’m not sure how y’all don’t see this.

I’m sorry to say, better mid-range torque (at the sacrifice of top end power) is only good for those too lazy to downshift. Anyone that knows how to stay in the powerband isn’t going to be faster at the dragstrip or at the autocross. I’m not sure how y’all don’t see this.

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I never once mentioned autocross so not sure where you got that from. I personally don't consider driving around a bunch of cones at speeds slower than your typical drive to work a form of "racing".

But you're welcome to believe whatever you want to believe in your own personal use of the car. Myself including many others have real world experience that says otherwise in our own personal use of our cars, so I'll put more weight on that than some random gibber jabber online.

On a racetrack, you want to maximize the area under the curve. If you shift an F150 & GT manifold at 6K, the F150 wins (no brainer).

If the GT manifold made identical peak power to the F150, but 500RPM later and has a 500RPM higher redline, they're virtually the same and offer the same acceleration through each powerband (which the GT would be 500RPM later) so there would be a brief period of a few MPH where the F150 is faster initially, then the GT is faster later, equaling itself out.

The fact the GT manifold makes MORE peak power and has far more area under the curve if I rev it to the mid-high 7s makes it faster than the F150 on the drag strip or at the track. I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp....

Boggus said:

Mine is a daily and will never see a track. The midrange difference is worth the minimum cost of the swap. I have only done data log tuning via the net. Car feels real good and has created more fun on accel. Glad I have an extra set of rears in the garage.

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To each their own I guess. If I’m going to void my powertrain warranty, I’m sure as hell not going to do it to reduce HP and torque (and lower usable RPM). Of course, I purchased the car knowing the power was up top…and was going to be nothing like a pushrod OHV engine. IMHO, revving these coyotes out is half of the fun.

EFI said:

I never once mentioned autocross so not sure where you got that from. I personally don't consider driving around a bunch of cones at speeds slower than your typical drive to work a form of "racing".

But you're welcome to believe whatever you want to believe in your own personal use of the car. Myself including many others have real world experience that says otherwise in our own personal use of our cars, so I'll put more weight on that than some random gibber jabber online.

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Hey, you’re free to do whatever the hell you want. I simply stated I don’t understand modifying a car to reduce horsepower and torque (both peak and area under the curve). You were the one that claimed some other form of “racing” where the impossible happens. I’m still curious as to what form of racing this is. Keep in mind, you won’t be shifting any less with the F150 manifold….you’ll just be maintaining lower RPMs. With either intake manifold, you'll need to stay within the powerband for optimum performance.

I keep seeing people refer to the cmcv plates as a means to boost low end torque......they flat out dont, once you request wot the ecu pulls the cmcv plates flat...they are no factor at all during wot pulls of any sort

I too have in my possesion an f150 manifold (lightly ported) and will install it soon

I have run stock and the gt350 manifold on my car, and currently have a cobrajet setup with monoblade installed and ill dyno it before installing the f150 manifold and can overlay all 4 manifolds on the same dyno sheet....

Mods have remained the same (longtubes, and cai of some variation) with the exception of now doing my own tuning...my last gt350 manifold dyno was utilizing my tune and made 456hp/388tq up from my previous lund tune that made 445hp/372tq.

For some small details regarding the stock gt vs f150 manifold...runner length stock is about 10 1/8" the f150 runners are 12"...the f150 also boasts a larger plenum

EFI said:

I never once mentioned autocross so not sure where you got that from. I personally don't consider driving around a bunch of cones at speeds slower than your typical drive to work a form of "racing".

But you're welcome to believe whatever you want to believe in your own personal use of the car. Myself including many others have real world experience that says otherwise in our own personal use of our cars, so I'll put more weight on that than some random gibber jabber online.

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Based on this statement alone, I'll now take every opinion you ever share on this board with many grains of salt. Go get your ass handed to you autocrossing and maybe you'll feel just a bit different.

Really interested in seeing those overlays sandeale!

This thread tho...

sandeale said:

I keep seeing people refer to the cmcv plates as a means to boost low end torque......they flat out dont, once you request wot the ecu pulls the cmcv plates flat...they are no factor at all during wot pulls of any sort

I too have in my possesion an f150 manifold (lightly ported) and will install it soon

I have run stock and the gt350 manifold on my car, and currently have a cobrajet setup with monoblade installed and ill dyno it before installing the f150 manifold and can overlay all 4 manifolds on the same dyno sheet....

Mods have remained the same (longtubes, and cai of some variation) with the exception of now doing my own tuning...my last gt350 manifold dyno was utilizing my tune and made 456hp/388tq up from my previous lund tune that made 445hp/372tq.

For some small details regarding the stock gt vs f150 manifold...runner length stock is about 10 1/8" the f150 runners are 12"...the f150 also boasts a larger plenum

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Whats the CJ and monoblade make? Must be more than the gt350?

Havent had a chance to dyno the car yet, im gonna try to get it done this coming friday...the car definetly feels faster, ill post a comparison between the gt350 and cobrajet manifold as well as some install pics (slightly different route than everyone else)

Eritas said:

I was trying to imply that what does not look fine is the PP2 pulls with it's aggressive torque drop at 3,700RPM, then a pretty awkward HP jump at 6,000-6,500RPM -which neither YOUR stock or F150 pulls have.Just to be clear, that PP2 pull is Ford's tune (ProCal) and package for the GT350 throttle body and CAI? If so, it doesn't look right, which is why I suggested there was something wrong with the tune or the car.

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Ah yes that I also found weird and can agree on in terms of the weird drop. However once again the fact it doesn't show in the stock or F150 manifold makes me lean toward the tune. At best maybe some freak weird incident happened. However without more PP2 dynos running around or without another run things are simply inconclusive.

Eritas said:

. I actually don't think the F150 pull was that *bad* at all, other than a bit of 'flatness' between 5,000-5,500RPM which a good tune would possibly improve.

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Agreed.

millhouse said:

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sandeale said:

I too have in my possesion an f150 manifold (lightly ported) and will install it soon

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Any pictures of the port job?

sandeale said:

Havent had a chance to dyno the car yet, im gonna try to get it done this coming friday...the car definitely feels faster, ill post a comparison between the gt350 and cobrajet manifold as well as some install pics (slightly different route than everyone else)

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Interested in this. Are you going to be making any tune tweaks on the dyno? Which manifold you have on that feels faster?


I posted this up before but this was the results of the same test but with the F150.

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Interested to see how the mustang runs turns out.

Everyone talks about shifting the powerband to a lower RPM range like it's a bad thing.

On the street that sounds perfect to me

jcart953 said:

Ah yes that I also found weird and can agree on in terms of the weird drop. However once again the fact it doesn't show in the stock or F150 manifold makes me lean toward the tune. At best maybe some freak weird incident happened. However without more PP2 dynos running around or without another run things are simply inconclusive.

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Agreed. Hopefully we'll see more people post their PP2 Dynos.

Did you do only 1 PP2 pull? Did all the runs have a consistent TQ drop an hp spike? Crazy to think Ford would release a bad tune. For piece of mind, can you confirm it was Ford's PP2 file uploaded with the ProCal tuner?

Why do those SVT guys always post dynos by speed & not RPM??? :frusty::frusty::frusty:

ahl395 said:

Everyone talks about shifting the powerband to a lower RPM range like it's a bad thing.

On the street that sounds perfect to me

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It is bad when it's sacrificing 500 RPM, and high end power and total area under the curve. You are basically turning the GT engine characteristics into the F150 engine characteristics. The GT isn't a truck. It doesn't need to tow at moderate RPM.

From the way it sounds, those looking to lower the powerband aren't driving their cars the way they were intended. If you need more power, shift into the appropriate gear...or press the pedal down farther. If you feel you need more part throttle torque, maybe you should trade for an ecoboost. Seriously, nothing wrong with them...and it sounds like if you aren't using the top end power anyways, why even have the GT in the first place?:shrug: