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Plan on modding your S550? Get informed

Bartly

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you're dealership is full of ignorant douche-bags, just like mine..
Funny my salesman in there relentless push to get me to sign up for the extended warranty told me all modifications would be covered if anything went wrong.
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oesman

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Let's just play out how this would go.

You: "XYZ stopped working."
Dealer: "You have a modified ABC and that's why XYZ isn't working, so it's not covered under warranty. Repair will be $2,000."
You: "ABC doesn't have anything to do with XYZ, there's no way ABC could have caused the XYZ failure."
Dealer: "We disagree. We think your modified ABC caused the XYZ problem. It's not covered under your warranty. The repair will be $2,000."
You: "I'll take you guys to court over this!"
Dealer: "Fine, do that."

You to a lawyer: "I needed to get my XYZ fixed, but the dealer refused warranty coverage because my ABC was modified. But ABC has nothing to do with XYZ; there's no way that could have caused the problem. By law, the dealer has to fix my XYZ."
Lawyer: "You're completely right. You have an ironclad case; you'll absolutely defeat them in court and they'll have to fix your XYZ under warranty. It'll just cost you $5,000 in legal fees, but you'll win and they'll have to cover the XYZ repair."

Which is why the whole concept of "the dealer has to prove that the modification caused the damage" is just pointless.

This is pretty much how it will go with one exception. There is a very real possibility of getting your legal fees paid for by the loser if you win. This is normally NOT the case, because in this country we have the "American rule" which defaults to everyone paying their own lawyers. This is in contrast to the "English rule" where the loser traditionally pays. The caveat here is that federal laws and statutes can bypass the American rule and award legal fees to the winner. The Magnusson-Moss act as a federal law actually does state that you can sue for legal costs.

So really though you are overall right, you'd have to go sue Ford. But you could if you have a great case, get your money back.
 

raceredftw

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This is pretty much how it will go with one exception. There is a very real possibility of getting your legal fees paid for by the loser if you win. This is normally NOT the case, because in this country we have the "American rule" which defaults to everyone paying their own lawyers. This is in contrast to the "English rule" where the loser traditionally pays. The caveat here is that federal laws and statutes can bypass the American rule and award legal fees to the winner. The Magnusson-Moss act as a federal law actually does state that you can sue for legal costs.

So really though you are overall right, you'd have to go sue Ford. But you could if you have a great case, get your money back.
Well, that's true and all. But let's be real, in most jurisdictions you will find yourself in small claims court where you don't even have a lawyer most of the time and rules of evidence are typically relaxed. I'd just go in with a letter from an ASE certified mechanic or something and a bunch of pictures/illustrations on why you're correct. Assume you're trying to explain why you're right to a little kid, and can use pictures and replicas and whatnot to do so.
 

oesman

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Well, that's true and all. But let's be real, in most jurisdictions you will find yourself in small claims court where you don't even have a lawyer most of the time and rules of evidence are typically relaxed. I'd just go in with a letter from an ASE certified mechanic or something and a bunch of pictures/illustrations on why you're correct. Assume you're trying to explain why you're right to a little kid, and can use pictures and replicas and whatnot to do so.
You are right that small claims cases usually don't involve lawyers and they're also limited to usually around $10K depending on the jurisdiction. Small claims could be a possible avenue. The guys were discussing a specific federal act though. So if someone is claiming violation of the magnuson moss warranty act, it's not really going to matter where they are jurisdictionally. It's not going to be in small claims. If someone wants to go get a lawyer they can certainly try getting their case in front of a real court since it's a federal law. Possibly even get their legal fees paid for if they win since federal laws like this act may break the "american rule" on legal fees. I'm not saying this is easy to do though.
 

jake_zx2

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Hate to bump an old hread, but I have a bit of a weird question... say you bought a non-PP car and have made a replica PP with brand new Ford OEM parts, and you had a diff break with 5000 miles on the car. Would Ford cover that Diff? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no", but I suppose my deeper question is would there be a way for them to prove that your car wasn't a PP from the factory so that they COULD deny warranty work?
 

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SJulian10mm

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Hate to bump an old hread, but I have a bit of a weird question... say you bought a non-PP car and have made a replica PP with brand new Ford OEM parts, and you had a diff break with 5000 miles on the car. Would Ford cover that Diff? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no", but I suppose my deeper question is would there be a way for them to prove that your car wasn't a PP from the factory so that they COULD deny warranty work?
Yes VIN
 

jake_zx2

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VIN doesn't identify packages though, it identifies model, engine, year, and assembly plant. VIN wouldn't identify PP cars. do they have a system where they look it up and get a build sheet? How often do they look that up?
 

SJulian10mm

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VIN doesn't identify packages though, it identifies model, engine, year, and assembly plant. VIN wouldn't identify PP cars. do they have a system where they look it up and get a build sheet? How often do they look that up?
Yeah and they would look it up via the VIN
 

Dai Uy Ted

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I'm shopping for a used '18 - '20 GT convertible, manual transmission. It would be my first Mustang since a '65, 52 years ago.

I found an interesting one at a non-Ford dealership with obvious cosmetic mods (grill, roll bar, stripes, coyote badging). I see in the dealer's photos that a CAI has been added.

I'm concerned about warranty issues, as I plan on getting a Ford ESP. Not too concerned about the CAI, but what other possible or typical mods should I investigate and be concerned about? The dealer's description does not mention any mods at all.

Great looking car, but I'm inclined to pass it up because of this. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
 

jake_zx2

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I'm shopping for a used '18 - '20 GT convertible, manual transmission. It would be my first Mustang since a '65, 52 years ago.

I found an interesting one at a non-Ford dealership with obvious cosmetic mods (grill, roll bar, stripes, coyote badging). I see in the dealer's photos that a CAI has been added.

I'm concerned about warranty issues, as I plan on getting a Ford ESP. Not too concerned about the CAI, but what other possible or typical mods should I investigate and be concerned about? The dealer's description does not mention any mods at all.

Great looking car, but I'm inclined to pass it up because of this. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Look into what kind of CAI it is. Some CAIs are tune-required, and if the car is tuned, it could void the warranty
 

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Dai Uy Ted

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Thanks; good point! I've added CAIs to three of my previous cars; one including a tune.

I just read a more comprehensive Carfax. The CAI is shown to have been added at the previous owner's Ford dealership, with other unspecified options - presumably the stripes and roll bar. I feel a bit better now about this car, especially since the seller has offered a great value on my trade.
 

aedfam

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I was a bit confused at these parts:

The only time a new vehicle warranty can be voided is if an aftermarket part has been installed and it can be proven that it is responsible for an emission warranty claim.
So, that says the only time it can be voided is when an aftermarket part is directly related to the failure of set part/vehicle. But before that in the post it reads:

If the vehicle fails to meet the performance warranty requirements, the manufacturer must make repairs at no cost to the owner, even if an aftermarket part is directly responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the performance warranty.
This part means even if the aftermarket part is directly responsible for the issue, the manufacturer must still make the repairs cost-free to the owner, correct?

So, does the manufacturer fork out the cost whether or not the aftermarket part was directly related or not?

Other than that I found this post useful. I definitely had these questions as well... Thanks!
 

bankyf

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Out of curiosity... Has anyone actually seen this alleged " FLASHEVNT" PID? I have spent quite a bit of time time with various Ford vehicles using IDS, Forscan, Autel and Span-on diagnostic tools and have never once run across this. I have copies of multiple Ford documents regarding modifications and detection of modifications and not one mentions this PID. Even a google search of the PID comes up empty. I lean very strongly towards this falling in to the category of things that never happened.
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