Whipple car runs bad - tune issues

I also had the issue with power limiting while on the road course. It happened in my third twenty minute session. I could turn the car off and back on but as soon as I laid into the power it would do it again. I just practiced my lines with limited power. I went into the flare tool but all my limiting option are grayed out and I cannot adjust them. I opened the tune in hp and loosened up some of the temp related limiting and gave it some power enrichment and it made things better but I could still make it happen if I ran 10/10ths. It seems to be preceeded with a quick hesitation like transition fueling is off and then the car runs fine but will not make much power.

HextallS550 said:

Can you link to this?

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I know you can find the video on Palm Beach Dyno's facebook page in their video section. I'd link it for you, but can't get to facebook while at work.

I added Kooks headers and high flow cats a few weeks back and when I dyno'd the car it made way less power and torque using the stock Whipple tune and 93 octane. I'm attributing this to a possible vacuum and/or exhaust leak which I'm having a shop address this upcoming week.

Nonetheless, I spoke with Dustin Whipple about the above video and he told me that the stage 2 gen 2 kits came with the bypass o-ring preinstalled and doubts that would be the source of the problem.

I proceeded to dig around under the hood and noticed the fitting that connects the manifold to the line that runs to the bypass valve had deteriorated and was all cracked. I proceeded to tell Dustin this and he overnighted me a new fitting made out of VITON to resist breaking. I swapped this fitting and the car runs/idles a little better. My vacuum at idle is about 17, so I'm not sure if that's within the normal range.

If you are having issues, be sure to check this fitting as it may be the culprit.

Check out my thread for more info and pictures of the fitting in question.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102248

Link to vid:

https://www.facebook.com/palmbeachdyno/videos/1978295562495984/

DAVECS1 said:

I also had the issue with power limiting while on the road course. It happened in my third twenty minute session. I could turn the car off and back on but as soon as I laid into the power it would do it again. I just practiced my lines with limited power. I went into the flare tool but all my limiting option are grayed out and I cannot adjust them. I opened the tune in hp and loosened up some of the temp related limiting and gave it some power enrichment and it made things better but I could still make it happen if I ran 10/10ths. It seems to be preceeded with a quick hesitation like transition fueling is off and then the car runs fine but will not make much power.

Click to expand...

I also had to Advance Trac light flashing while on the straight section of the road coarse which I thought was strange since the car was going straight. It was limiting power as well. It was the yellow light on the right lower part of the center screen. Opposite of the Traction Control light.
On my last of 3 sessions I got a message that said Modes deactivated or something like that. I wasnt able to switch from Sport to Race or Normal. All nannies were off.

I talked with Whipple because I had the grated out issue. I was told to run thebolder 3.06 version of the flare tool and it worked for me. The new one has a lot of bugs.

Similar thing happened the 2nd time I dynoed my car. I had turned advance Trac off prior to the runs. After the third pull all types of messages and prompts started showing on the dash cluster indicating hill assisnt and driving modes were unavailable.

Shut the car down, started it back up and everything went back to normal.

Well, my hesitation and surging is back... I have been datalogging for a couple of weeks and pinpointed it to something going on with timing.

Below is a pic showing a plot of spark advance and KR during a 5th gear, half throttle run-up from 2000-3000 RPM. As can be seen the timing is jumping back and forth about 4 degrees. Timing is being added smoothly as illustrated by the KR being negative as much as 2.5 degrees.

This only happens part throttle. Full throttle the timing is steady.

What could cause this apart from the tune?

John

That's interesting to know. What system did you use to log this?

jgedde said:

Well, my hesitation and surging is back... I have been datalogging for a couple of weeks and pinpointed it to something going on with timing.

Below is a pic showing a plot of spark advance and KR during a 5th gear, half throttle run-up from 2000-3000 RPM. As can be seen the timing is jumping back and forth about 4 degrees. Timing is being added smoothly as illustrated by the KR being negative as much as 2.5 degrees.

This only happens part throttle. Full throttle the timing is steady.

What could cause this apart from the tune?

John

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Cam phaser connector intermittent connection, wire damage, phaser failure, blocked oil ports to heads, bad timing chain primary or secondary tensioner.

Can you log APP? TPS 1 &2,? If you look at the distance tables you’ll see as they blend the different mapped points spark is constantly changing as the driver demand changes. If you have an issue with the TB you’ll see issues like this.

Roh92cp said:

That's interesting to know. What system did you use to log this?

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Forscan for Android. Opened up the log file in Forscan for PC, saved it out as a .CSV and plotted it in Excel.

John

HextallS550 said:

Can you log APP? TPS 1 &2,? If you look at the distance tables you’ll see as they blend the different mapped points spark is constantly changing as the driver demand changes. If you have an issue with the TB you’ll see issues like this.

Click to expand...

I just did a log with those PIDs as you suggested and saw nothing out of the ordinary.

Thanks,
John

sigintel said:

Cam phaser connector intermittent connection, wire damage, phaser failure, blocked oil ports to heads, bad timing chain primary or secondary tensioner.

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But why would this only happen at part throttle under boost? WOT no problem, part throttle no boost is OK as well.

John

Is it lugging the motor? 2k rpm is pretty low at half throttle in 5th gear... Bet if you put it in the correct gear it doesn't do it...

F1scamp said:

Is it lugging the motor? 2k rpm is pretty low at half throttle in 5th gear... Bet if you put it in the correct gear it doesn't do it...

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She doesn't seem to be lugging. But it still does happen at higher RPMs. Things happen much quicker at higher RPMs and it's harder to get a stretch of data.

In any case, I have another interesting clue. I hope Dustin or Will chimes in with an explanation. I turned off CHT and overload limiting. Not only is the car much quicker but the hesitation/surging issues are mostly gone. Hmmm. At some point when I get done with house chores, I will see which one of them is the one that fixes it.

John