Question about NOT replacing oil pump gears

Look at this on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/191844041190

ATI Super Damper 2011+ Ford Mustang & F150 Coyote motor 5.0L 918047 SFI BLEM

sigintel said:

According to Ford engineering and their failure analysis group that inspected every failed engine:
harmonics, especially torsional vibration, are leading to opg and tg failures in FI applications where the stock crank damper has not been upgraded or an inappropriate "race" damper was used.

Ford would NOT name BAD race dampers that were inappropriately tuned.
When pressed, Ford did state ATI dampers are GOOD, and were specifically tuned to meet Fords requirements. This includes both dampers for Coyote and the SCJ.

Get a good damper like ATI then do opg and tg.

ATI 918047 + good damper install kit should be less than$500 and do it yourself. Just doing damper alone is less invasive than pulling tg and oil pump.

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That is interesting but I'd hate to think the aftermarket is selling us two parts (OPG/TG) and an involved install when a cheaper/simpler to install solution would do the same thing for longevity.

I'd like to hear more testimony as this seems to be newer tech. information.

ramirj2 said:

Look at this on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/191844041190

ATI Super Damper 2011+ Ford Mustang & F150 Coyote motor 5.0L 918047 SFI BLEM


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Looks like these are the rejects they are selling at a discount. Tempting, but hope these are reliable.

Here are some quotes from Dustin, @Whipple AKA Whipple SC who was responding to being Whippled without OPG and timing gears.

Whipple SC said:

You don't need to keep it under 7000. We've got 30k on one of our test cars and 20k on the other, both have massive abuse, near rent a car status lol and no issues. Shelby tracks most of there cars, never an issue. We have thousands of customers running, no issues. Roush also revs to the same rpm, no issues.

I wouldn't offer something that I wouldn't run on my own car and we wouldn't offer a warranty if we felt poorly about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Whipple SC said:

No problem, just want you to enjoy it to the max, in fact with flight control you can go to 7800 as we did further testing and feel this is safe for racing applications. I would keep daily drivers at 7500 but if you go to the track, take it to 7800.

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Whipple SC said:

11-14's were more problematic, but the 15+ doesn't have an issue. Now if your going to build a race car, built motor, then it's no question a good choice but it's just not needed for daily drivers and stock engines.

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Whipple SC said:

We have well over 1000 of them out there running, not one failure that we are aware of. Including many race versions.

Also passed durability testing at 200+mph during the calibration phase. If it passes through the testing we put on these and it passed Roush/Ford Racing durability testing at same RPM, I'm confident that it will not be an issue for DD.

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Okay, extremely rare for stock engine to blow OPGs... risk seems to be when forced induction is involved the risk for broken gears exist. At any specific RPM, the difference between FI and stock is the different harmonics that are generated in the crankshaft by the "bigger" combustion pressures. I just talked to an engineer at ATI and he indicated same... it is the different harmonics that break the OPGs. The factory dampner/harmonic balancer is not tuned for dampning out these higher frequency harmonics. The ATI dampner has a broader range of harmonics it can balance out. All this being said, it does appear that maybe the "easier" solution is to replace the factory balancer with a better aftermarket one, Is there anyone out there in the FI community That has taken this approach? Again I hate to tear into a brand new motor just to install the OPGs.

Whipple 10 rib kit comes with ATI balancer!! One of the reasons I did the 10 rib upgrade, also looks nice and a bit more Whipple whine!!

Ford contact gave permission to post the info. New thread coming soon.

Higher pressures mean higher peak instantanious acceleration. Each power stroke is a brief crank acceleration so 8 impulses on crank every 2 revoltions (4 stroke cycle).

Ford will likely never say "only xyz" is needed for reliable FI on stock block.

Keep in mind that the heavier rotating mass of Whipple vs Centri and the different belt set ups may mean vastly different peak crank torsional vibration even though both are FI. Turbo setups likely also different.

Bottom line, an ATI damper install is way easier than opg and tg. Cost vs durability benefit is looking very high. Obviously, all three: damper, opg, tg is higher install and parts cost and additional durability.

I suspect the statistics will show few or zero opg failures running ATI damper with Whipple 6 or 10 rib (10 comes w ATI damper? hmmm). I am guessing light weight centri w short belt on stock or race damper will be highest opg or tg failures. Guessing TT closer to centri.

I thought about paying to have the opg done but don't like the idea of having a new engine torn into. Turbo50 had the mmr opg and ended up getting rod knock so I guess it is a gamble no matter what. I guess I'll just save the money for a built engine when my time comes. I am interested in this ATI balancer info though.

Anyone running the MMR balancer? It's lighter than the ATI, but not sure if it's better.

Funny how quickly things change. Now there is going to be a rush of people thinking they "need" a new dampener now. If only there was a way to discuss whether it's a problem or not. Internet is a strange place.

we get 8 hours

ok, I guess it cannot hurt. Since I am not getting OPG, I ordered one of those ATI balancers on Ebay. Looks like one left now. Normally would not go with a "blem", but they are actually being sold by ATI. I do not care about a scratch or anything that does not affect the functionality of it.

I'm now afraid to boost my car. Dud got knock with 600whp and OPG

Brian Z. said:

Anyone running the MMR balancer? It's lighter than the ATI, but not sure if it's better.

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I have the MMR balancer. Zero issues thus far.

Killswitch16GT said:

I'm now afraid to boost my car. Dud got knock with 600whp and OPG

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Both users are also using factory spec oil which I feel is leading to failures more so than anything. Just my opinion though nothing concrete.