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MotoIQ TESTED: Ford Power Packs 1-3

scoggy_doogan

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For me PP2 wins for daily driving. As much as I would love to go with PP3, I know the extra grunt in the low RPMs will make the car more enjoyable for me. I'm just glad Ford has options for everybody rather than a one size fits all.
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Eritas

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I'm going to put a link of this thread under the Wikipedia article of "bench racing", this is the very definition of that phrase :clap2:

Although I'll have to start a new sub-article titled "Excel racing", I don't think there's any info on that so this is groundbreaking theory. Maybe we can even get an official 1/4 mile thread in the racing section for the fastest Excel cars.
Apparently "Excel racing" is what the pros do when operating at that level to eek every last tenth of a second out of a car. Pretty cool he did that for PP2 vs PP3. I guess as long as it goes against what's on your car, you won't believe it. :headbonk:
 

EFI

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Yeah except the pros then go out and actually validate it on a racetrack before deciding to go with that change or not in an actual race. I don't know of any professional teams that just do racing simulation on a computer and then take it right to race day on Sunday without any sort of on track testing before.

And it has nothing to do with what I have on my own car and what I believe. It could be the other way around and I still would like actual real world validation before spending my money. Not sure why you keep bringing that up, but if it helps validate your own beliefs then go with it.

Yes it's cool, like I said many times already. But I wish there was more real world testing before statements were made that the PP3 is "clearly superior" to the PP2, that's all.

Apparently "Excel racing" is what the pros do when operating at that level to eek every last tenth of a second out of a car. Pretty cool he did that for PP2 vs PP3. I guess as long as it goes against what's on your car, you won't believe it. :headbonk:
 

Competition Orange

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This is absolutely amazing data. Much appreciated. I was pretty much sold on the PP2, but after seeing the data behind it all, and not just peak figures, I'm totally into the PP3.

I'd love for them to do a follow up series on the FP PP3 vs a custom tune with same hardware.
 

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I was surprised that I could not find a PP2 or PP3 time slip in our database thread.

I also was unable to find a video of a race between a PP2 and PP3 car.

A PP2 car runs the 1/4 mile in high 11s. How much faster is a PP3?
 

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Eritas

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I was surprised that I could not find a PP2 or PP3 time slip in our database thread.

I also was unable to find a video of a race between a PP2 and PP3 car.

A PP2 car runs the 1/4 mile in high 11s. How much faster is a PP3?
Still too many variables from track, altitude, track conditions, tire, wheels, headers, exhaust, driver, etc...
 

millhouse

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Apparently "Excel racing" is what the pros do when operating at that level to eek every last tenth of a second out of a car. Pretty cool he did that for PP2 vs PP3. I guess as long as it goes against what's on your car, you won't believe it. :headbonk:
With enough information that we have today, we are easily able to determine the superior starting point with modifications. This is exactly what these dynos show us...but apparently not everyone can see it.

To those people, look at the PP2 dyno and shift the HP curve to align with the max RPM of the PP3. The area under the curve from redline to the rpm drop for the next gear is significantly larger. For those of us who enjoy ringing these engines out, the PP3 will be significantly quicker.
 

SR56

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I'm guessing that since it's a Ford tune, long tubes are a no-go?
 
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BillyJRacing

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Thanks everyone for the kind words. I'm glad you're enjoying the article.

Thanks for the comprehensive write up Billy. Did you notice any significant increase in intake/cylinder head temps when using the GT350 intake vs the stock air box during normal street driving?
There are only increased IATs when the car is stopped due to the 'hot air intake' of the GT350 intake system, which sucks in hot engine bay air. When moving, most of the air is taken from the front grill so there is very little AIT differences. However a proper closed airbox (like stock) is a much better design and why you never see 'hot air intakes' in professional motorsports.

CHT's are unaffected.

Yeah except the pros then go out and actually validate it on a racetrack before deciding to go with that change or not in an actual race. I don't know of any professional teams that just do racing simulation on a computer and then take it right to race day on Sunday without any sort of on track testing before.
You may be interested in hearing that the Ford GT race & street car were primarily developed in a simulator with a goal to win LeMans (even before any physical test car or even clay model were made).

Also a significant portion of race car development, setup and testing at the level of F1, Indycar, LMP1, LMP2, GTE, and even quite a few GT3 raceteams are done on "Driver-In-the-Loop" (DIL) simulators -which can accurately portrait 1mm ride height changes, 25lb spring rate changes, etc.. Due to testing bans and operating costs of fuel, tires, hotels, track rental, people, its much less expensive and far more efficient to do testing and development digitally. Sure real-world testing is necessary for cross-referencing, but pretty much every day the importance of simulators and the accuracy and benefit they deliver becomes more useful than real-world testing at the track.

-Billy
 

EFI

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You may be interested in hearing that the Ford GT race & street car were primarily developed in a simulator with a goal to win LeMans (even before any physical test car or even clay model were made).

Also a significant portion of race car development, setup and testing at the level of F1, Indycar, LMP1, LMP2, GTE, and even quite a few GT3 raceteams are done on "Driver-In-the-Loop" (DIL) simulators -which can accurately portrait 1mm ride height changes, 25lb spring rate changes, etc.. Due to testing bans and operating costs of fuel, tires, hotels, track rental, people, its much less expensive and far more efficient to do testing and development digitally. Sure real-world testing is necessary for cross-referencing, but pretty much every day the importance of simulators and the accuracy and benefit they deliver becomes more useful than real-world testing at the track.
Of course there is extensive simulation and testing off the track, but you can't say that they don't also test extensively on track while developing their car mechanics.

Also, those are multi-million dollar testing facilities and simulators, not just an Excel spreadsheet. I'll put alot more weight and value on the results of those vs. Excel math.
 

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millhouse

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Of course there is extensive simulation and testing off the track, but you can't say that they don't also test extensively on track while developing their car mechanics.

Also, those are multi-million dollar testing facilities and simulators, not just an Excel spreadsheet. I'll put alot more weight and value on the results of those vs. Excel math.
It all starts with math, don’t you understand?

Are you not able to see the larger relative area on the PP3 dyno?
 

Eritas

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You may be interested in hearing that the Ford GT race & street car were primarily developed in a simulator with a goal to win LeMans (even before any physical test car or even clay model were made).

Also a significant portion of race car development, setup and testing at the level of F1, Indycar, LMP1, LMP2, GTE, and even quite a few GT3 raceteams are done on "Driver-In-the-Loop" (DIL) simulators -which can accurately portrait 1mm ride height changes, 25lb spring rate changes, etc.. Due to testing bans and operating costs of fuel, tires, hotels, track rental, people, its much less expensive and far more efficient to do testing and development digitally. Sure real-world testing is necessary for cross-referencing, but pretty much every day the importance of simulators and the accuracy and benefit they deliver becomes more useful than real-world testing at the track.

-Billy
Wow. Impressive :headbang:

It all starts with math, don’t you understand?

Are you not able to see the larger relative area on the PP3 dyno?
It's obvious he cannot since he didn't buy the PP3 and has to be skeptical of anything that proves or suggests that PP3 is faster than his PP2. It's sad to see people be this dense and close minded (from religion to political views) without the ability to objectively look at information or understand a different viewpoint. The "i'm right and anything that does not agree with me is wrong" is the problem with our society.

I want the PP3 and I see the value of PP2 for daily drivers and people who are afraid of high rpm. Nothing wrong with differing views, but EFI is hell-bent on proving that 'his' PP2 is objectively faster and better than the PP3 package. :frusty:

I'm over it. He can believe what he wants.

Yes it starts with math, and ends with real world results.

I'm just waiting for the latter. Carry on.
Be sure to post the 1/4 results when you find a PP2 with long tubes, skinnies, drag radials at sea level trap a higher speed and lower ET than a stock car with a PP3 running in Colorado :thumbsup:
 

millhouse

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Wow. Impressive :headbang:


It's obvious he cannot since he didn't buy the PP3 and has to be skeptical of anything that proves or suggests that PP3 is faster than his PP2. It's sad to see people be this dense and close minded (from religion to political views) without the ability to objectively look at information or understand a different viewpoint. The "i'm right and anything that does not agree with me is wrong" is the problem with our society.

I want the PP3 and I see the value of PP2 for daily drivers and people who are afraid of high rpm. Nothing wrong with differing views, but EFI is hell-bent on proving that 'his' PP2 is objectively faster and better than the PP3 package. :frusty:

I'm over it. He can believe what he wants.
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EFI

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The "i'm right and anything that does not agree with me is wrong" is the problem with our society.
When did I every say that (that I'm right about the PP2 being faster)?

but EFI is hell-bent on proving that 'his' PP2 is objectively faster and better than the PP3 package
When did I ever try to argue that the PP2 is faster?

All that's going on in here is being skeptical and asking/waiting for real world results before I agree to the results. Not once did I say I think the PP2 is faster and not once did I try to make you believe that.
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