MT Head 2 Head - 2018 Camaro SS 1LE vs 2018 Mustang GT

thill444 · Feb 18, 2018

millhouse said:
Every single review mentions multiple times how terrible the visibility is. But yeah, it's only the haters who have visibility issues with the camaro.

It's not much worse than my C7. It's worse than the Mustang and Challenger but I presonally don't see it as a deal breaker. Like my C7 if you set the mirrors correctly it makes all the difference and all 2SS models have blind spot and cross traffic alert.

I've been reading the Camaro boards closely and it's not like the car is unsafe, or you would be reading about accidents related to visibility issues.

I prefer the Mustang styling but the interior fit and finish in both the Camaro and 18 Mustang are on par with each other. Both have softer materials where your hands could into constant contact and both use lots of hard plastic too. Neither will be mistaken for a Mercedes interior, but both have come a long way.

I am doing another back to back comparison this week. This time a 1LE vs an 18 Premium w/PP1 and magride. The Mustang is alomost $3K more after discounts and I think it will be closer to $4K because the Chevy dealer is giving me more for trade in.

4V Mayhem · Feb 19, 2018

bluebeastsrt said:
Here’s a photo of my 2SS/RS. I also loved the look of the car. But I traded it because I couldn’t stand to be inside of it. It not haters. Unless you want to label me a hater that spent 45 grand on a 2011 Camaro. I’m going to have to disagree with you..

I said the haters blow things out of proportion. Plenty of people have them, bought one again, love them, and DD them with no issues. And apparently GM did group testing and found that people who favor the Camaro preferred the looks of it over redesigning it to give it more visibility. Like I said, people who hate the car will make it sound like you're looking thru straw and the interior is caving you in and you'll suffocate. That is not the case. And so far I have not heard of any accidents with the Camaro related to visual limitations. And I loved mine. The visual issues never bothered me for a second. To each their own but my main point is that anything negative regarding both cars will get exaggerated.

bluebeastsrt · Feb 19, 2018

LOL To me it was like looking thru a straw. Ever lane change went like this. Speed up and hope for the best. I thought a 12 grand Nissan Versa had better interior material. Than my completely loaded 50 grand SS! The seats were hard and uncomfortable. This is the point of view of a past owner. Not a mustang fan boy. I’m not exaggerating one bit. Yes GM did do group testing. And the Camaro6 crowd got exactly what they wanted. A smaller & more powerful 5th gen copy cat. With the same shitty ergonomics. These issues are the single biggest reason the Camaro doesn’t sell. It out performs the Mustang. It’s not like the Camaro is the more expensive car anymore. And it’s not like the cars exterior is bad looking. It doesn’t sell for a reason. Telling customers to deal with it. Or adjust your mirrors. Is just stupid! You can bury your head in the sand and pretend problems don’t exist. Or you can fix them. But option number two. Is a one way ticket to being discontinued all over again.

4V Mayhem · Feb 19, 2018

bluebeastsrt said:
LOL To me it was like looking thru a straw. Ever lane change went like this. Speed up and hope for the best. I thought a 12 grand Nissan Versa had better interior material. Than my completely loaded 50 grand SS! The seats were hard and uncomfortable. This is the point of view of a past owner. Not a mustang fan boy. I’m not exaggerating one bit. Yes GM did do group testing. And the Camaro6 crowd got exactly what they wanted. A smaller & more powerful 5th gen copy cat. With the same shitty ergonomics. These issues are the single biggest reason the Camaro doesn’t sell. It out performs the Mustang. It’s not like the Camaro is the more expensive car anymore. And it’s not like the cars exterior is bad looking. It doesn’t sell for a reason. Telling customers to deal with it. Or adjust your mirrors. Is just stupid! You can bury your head in the sand and pretend problems don’t exist. Or you can fix them. But option number two. Is a one way ticket to being discontinued all over again.

I understand that you had those problems. But I never had an issue with lane changes in mine. Or any other car I owned for that matter. I felt like I had plenty of visibility. Plus I always keep an eye on where traffic is all around me all the time. So it really is a non-issue for me. As far as selling, I think it sells well enough that it ain't going anywhere any time soon if at all. They sell less but they also have been more expensive. Perhaps the price of them is enough to keep it alive despite not selling as much. Who knows. Now that the price of the Mustang has increased I think we'll see how the sales war goes.

millhouse · Feb 19, 2018

4V Mayhem said:
I said the haters blow things out of proportion. Plenty of people have them, bought one again, love them, and DD them with no issues. And apparently GM did group testing and found that people who favor the Camaro preferred the looks of it over redesigning it to give it more visibility. Like I said, people who hate the car will make it sound like you're looking thru straw and the interior is caving you in and you'll suffocate. That is not the case. And so far I have not heard of any accidents with the Camaro related to visual limitations. And I loved mine. The visual issues never bothered me for a second. To each their own but my main point is that anything negative regarding both cars will get exaggerated.

It's funny that the camaro fanboys are still trying to rationalize their shortcomings. Literally ever single magazine review bashes the camaro for visibility issues. Haters too? You seem to be good at ignore this points.

Have fun adjusting your mirrors to make the rear window bigger and the front a-pillars smaller. I can't believe camaro fools are still arguing that you can fix the viability issues with bind spot sensors and backup cameras....as if visibility issues only relate to the rear 1/4 blind spots. :crazy:

Do you realize quite a few people don't enjoy feeling like they are sitting in a pillbox...or don't like having to stop 100 yards short of a stoplight to be able to see the damn thing? People just don't like how the camaro makes them feel when they sit in it, and adjusting the mirrors and adding blind spot sensors can't fix these things.

And yes, the idiots at GM decided to ignore everyone who decided the previous gen visibility sucks...and instead of trying to gain a bigger market share, they wen't after people who already owned 5th gen camaros. :crazy:

4V Mayhem · Feb 19, 2018

millhouse said:
It's funny that the camaro fanboys are still trying to rationalize their shortcomings. Literally ever single magazine review bashes the camaro for visibility issues. Haters too? You seem to be good at ignore this points.

Have fun adjusting your mirrors to make the rear window bigger and the front a-pillars smaller. I can't believe camaro fools are still arguing that you can fix the viability issues with bind spot sensors and backup cameras....as if visibility issues only relate to the rear 1/4 blind spots. Do you realize quite a few people don't enjoy feeling like they are sitting in a pillbox...or don't like having to stop 100 yards short of a stoplight to be able to see the damn thing? People just don't like how the camaro makes them feel when they sit in it, and adjusting the mirrors and adding blind spot sensors can't fix these things.

And yes, the idiots at GM decided to ignore everyone who decided the previous gen visibility sucks...and instead of trying to gain a bigger market share, they wen't after people who already owned 5th gen camaros.

Sure.

millhouse · Feb 19, 2018

4V Mayhem said:
Sure.

Haha, spoken like a true camaro douchbag. :cheers:

4V Mayhem · Feb 19, 2018

millhouse said:
Haha, spoken like a true camaro douchbag. :cheers:

Ok.

Timeless · Feb 19, 2018

millhouse said:
Literally ever single magazine review bashes the camaro for visibility issues.

Have fun adjusting your mirrors to make the rear window bigger and the front a-pillars smaller.

To be fair, GM has tried to mitigate these issues with electronic aids.

Whether it is enough is up to personal taste. I personally don't like it no matter what electronic aids are present.

A7X · Feb 19, 2018

bluebeastsrt said:
LOL To me it was like looking thru a straw. Ever lane change went like this. Speed up and hope for the best. I thought a 12 grand Nissan Versa had better interior material. Than my completely loaded 50 grand SS! The seats were hard and uncomfortable. This is the point of view of a past owner. Not a mustang fan boy. I’m not exaggerating one bit. Yes GM did do group testing. And the Camaro6 crowd got exactly what they wanted. A smaller & more powerful 5th gen copy cat. With the same shitty ergonomics. These issues are the single biggest reason the Camaro doesn’t sell. It out performs the Mustang. It’s not like the Camaro is the more expensive car anymore. And it’s not like the cars exterior is bad looking. It doesn’t sell for a reason. Telling customers to deal with it. Or adjust your mirrors. Is just stupid! You can bury your head in the sand and pretend problems don’t exist. Or you can fix them. But option number two. Is a one way ticket to being discontinued all over again.

Exactly why I didn't get a Camaro 2SS. I loved the power and feel. Couldn't stand being inside a "cave" and the back seat was unusable as was the trunk.

SO glad I got the Mustang GT instead

thill444 · Feb 19, 2018

millhouse said:
It's funny that the camaro fanboys are still trying to rationalize their shortcomings. Literally ever single magazine review bashes the camaro for visibility issues. Haters too? You seem to be good at ignore this points.

Have fun adjusting your mirrors to make the rear window bigger and the front a-pillars smaller. I can't believe camaro fools are still arguing that you can fix the viability issues with bind spot sensors and backup cameras....as if visibility issues only relate to the rear 1/4 blind spots. Do you realize quite a few people don't enjoy feeling like they are sitting in a pillbox...or don't like having to stop 100 yards short of a stoplight to be able to see the damn thing? People just don't like how the camaro makes them feel when they sit in it, and adjusting the mirrors and adding blind spot sensors can't fix these things.

And yes, the idiots at GM decided to ignore everyone who decided the previous gen visibility sucks...and instead of trying to gain a bigger market share, they wen't after people who already owned 5th gen camaros.

And yet those magazines still pick the Camaro over the Mustang in almost every review. Why? Because it's a much better drivers car street or track. That's what my own testing has revealed to me and why this is such a hard decision. Neither of these cars have funactional back seats for adults nor are they as comfortable as other less performing cars in the same price range. I wish I could test drive a PP two but the chances of that are zero.

millhouse · Feb 19, 2018

thill444 said:
And yet those magazines still pick the Camaro over the Mustang in almost every review. Why? Because it's a much better drivers car street or track. That's what my own testing has revealed to me and why this is such a hard decision. Neither of these cars have funactional back seats for adults nor are they as comfortable as other less performing cars in the same price range. I wish I could test drive a PP two but the chances of that are zero.

Those magazines choose cars on different criteria. The camaro could have no rear or 1/4 windows and they would still choose it based on performance alone. They will often chose a car with a back-breaking ride over ones that are more compliant. I could care less what car they think is the best drivers car if I feel like shit when I'm driving it.

The buying public consistently chooses the better daily driver. Visibility isn't something that can be solved without re-designing the car. Blind spot sensors and backup cameras don't make the rear windows bigger, the A pillars smaller or lower the belt-line.

If you like to feel like you're driving in a tank and are OK with huge a-pillars and the extremely high belt-line, the camaro is a fine car. When I drove it, I hated it. It's one of the reasons I refuse to tint my windows...I hate feeling like I'm driving in the batmobile, and hate having to plan my stops at stoplights so I don't have to duck down to see the lights.

A7X · Feb 19, 2018

The Mustang is WAY more livable than the Camaro. I liked he Camaro much more initially in test drives but the back seat would not fit my teens. The Mustang did and I've even put 2 snowboards and a set of skis on the trunk and folding one back seat down.

I doubt the Camaro could do the same.

I might get a Camaro ZL1 someday used. Just as a go fast toy. But as a daily the Mustang is superior for me

15GTBEN · Feb 19, 2018

millhouse said:
Those magazines choose cars on different criteria. The camaro could have no rear or 1/4 windows and they would still choose it based on performance alone.

If you like to feel like you're driving in a tank and are OK with huge a-pillars and the extremely high belt-line, the camaro is a fine car. When I drove it, I hated it. It's one of the reasons I refuse to tint my windows...I hate feeling like I'm driving in the batmobile, and hate having to plan my stops at stoplights so I don't have to duck down to see the lights.

Besides relying on mirrors position/blind spot monitoring, the only true blind spot is the right rear quarter. I can look over my left shoulder and see everything. I’ve never had to plan my stops at stop lights.

millhouse · Feb 19, 2018

15GTBEN said:
Besides relying on mirrors position/blind spot monitoring, the only true blind spot is the right rear quarter. I can look over my left shoulder and see everything. I’ve never had to plan my stops at stop lights.

You're either lying or short in stature. Anyone 6' and above has to stop well short at stoplights to avoid having to duck down to see. The front windshield is ridiculously short as are the side windows.

And the front A pillars being as large as they are with the high belt line introduces a large biker and pedestrian blind spot.

And there is a huge blind spot on both drivers and passenger side C pillars. You cannot rely on direct line of sight vision in the camaro period.

Honestly, it really is that bad. If you like it, good for you...but for most of us....it's shit.

MT Head 2 Head - 2018 Camaro SS 1LE vs 2018 Mustang GT

thill444

Well-Known Member

4V Mayhem

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bluebeastsrt

Oh boy

4V Mayhem

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millhouse

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4V Mayhem

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millhouse

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4V Mayhem

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Timeless

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A7X

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thill444

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millhouse

Well-Known Member

A7X

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15GTBEN

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millhouse

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