2019 GT350 Upgrades: Tech, Aerodynamics and Other GT500 Track Improvements

jake_zx2 · Jun 20, 2018

MustangGT350 said:
Throw Cup2's on a GT350 (non-R, just to clarify what we're talking about here) and I don't believe the PP2 can hang. More HP for starters. And the new brakes are more for longevity than performance. There's nothing here that's groundbreaking.

I'd 100% agree, which is why I think they HAD to start offering the GT350 with cup2s from factory. But, we're talking about showroom stock cars, not modified ones. If you want to justify spending $1500+ on tires, then let me invest that in FP springs, sway bars, a tune, and some race pads and fluid for the PP2 and we'll see where they stand then

MustangGT350 said:
On top of that, I think anyone who discounts the Flat Plane Crank and how special it is is short-sighted. This alone is worth owning the car over a PP2. The growl is worth ownership alone.

I agree from a pure experience perspective, but disagree as a performance driver. Both engines have similar characteristics, yet the 5.0 makes better power in the full power band and has MUCH better longevity. That's actually the main reason I bought a 2018 rather than a used GT350

Moogatwo said:
PP2 is still an awesome car for the money. I'm glad Ford made it an option.

But I agree if you throw a set of SC2's on the 350 it's back on top. I don't buy into the "well stock for stock PP2 is still quicker" argument, because we're talking about just tires. They are a consumable. They will expire and eventually need to be replaced with something else.

Sure, but if you take the car straight from the dealership to the racetrack (don't say nobody does that, I did with my 2018), are you going to be able to beat out a PP2 with the same amount of skill behind the wheel?

nastang87xx said:
Well considering the GT350 horsepower advantage where it matters most...eh, there's a point to the PP2 being pretty close to equal.

The GT350 horsepower advantage isn't really significant considering the 2018 will run fairly close with it in a straight line. What IS significant about the GT350 is the trans upgrade

ronaldwalter said:
What color is on the new 2019 gt350 shown here?

Looks to be Kona Blue

Eritas said:
In terms of lap time:

pre-2019 GT350 < SS1LE < GT Performance Package 2 < 2019 GT350 < GT350R < ZL1 1LE

Fixed it for you :cheers:

cosmo · Jun 20, 2018

jake_zx2 said:
I'd 100% agree, which is why I think they HAD to start offering the GT350 with cup2s from factory. But, we're talking about showroom stock cars, not modified ones. If you want to justify spending $1500+ on tires, then let me invest that in FP springs, sway bars, a tune, and some race pads and fluid for the PP2 and we'll see where they stand then

Tires are consumables and can be swapped quickly, springs/sway bars aren't so much. You could argue they are track consumables, but they really aren't. Especially with magnaride tech.

jake_zx2 said:
I agree from a pure experience perspective, but disagree as a performance driver. Both engines have similar characteristics, yet the 5.0 makes better power in the full power band and has MUCH better longevity. That's actually the main reason I bought a 2018 rather than a used GT350

Wouldn't count on the longevity yet. Going into the issues forums shows lots of issues with the new MT82D and the 5.0 is showing some issues as well. They'll fix the 5.0 for sure, but right now they're probably not as far apart as you'd think.

Being in the industry has taught me to NEVER buy a launch vehicle, wait at least a year.

jake_zx2 said:
The GT350 horsepower advantage isn't really significant considering the 2018 will run fairly close with it in a straight line. What IS significant about the GT350 is the trans upgrade

They trap differently, which is more idicative of track power over ET. Pp2 will only have the advantage coming out of the pit or if the GT350 driver is a newbie or doesn't know the track well and gets caught below 4000.

PP2 is a great package, but the only reason it can be discussed in the same sentence as track pack GT350s is because of the tires, let's not kid ourselves.

jake_zx2 · Jun 20, 2018

cosmo said:
Tires are consumables and can be swapped quickly, springs/sway bars aren't so much. You could argue they are track consumables, but they really aren't. Especially with magnaride tech.

It's a car, everything is a consumable

cosmo said:
Wouldn't count on the longevity yet. Going into the issues forums shows lots of issues with the new MT82D and the 5.0 is showing some issues as well. They'll fix the 5.0 for sure, but right now they're probably not as far apart as you'd think.

Being in the industry has taught me to NEVER buy a launch vehicle, wait at least a year.

Haven't seen a single stock 2018 coyote failure yet. I've seen some trans issues, but that's why I mentioned the GT350's strong suit being the trans

cosmo said:
They trap differently, which is more idicative of track power over ET. Pp2 will only have the advantage coming out of the pit or if the GT350 driver is a newbie or doesn't know the track well and gets caught below 4000..

I wasn't talking about 1/4 mile times. I've aready done a highway pull from 40 against a stock GT350, ended right on his rear bumper by 130

cosmo said:
PP2 is a great package, but the only reason it can be discussed in the same sentence as track pack GT350s is because of the tires, let's not kid ourselves.

Wouldn't say that... even with the GT350 having cup2s, I still don't see there being a massive gap between the 2 cars. There's really no place other than brakes that the GT350 has a significant advantage, and even at that, its no difference that a set of AP brakes for the PP with the $15,000 you save against a GT350 wont fix.

At this point, you're buying a GT350 for the name. To say that the GT350 has an extra $15,000 worth of performance is ridiculous

Hack · Jun 20, 2018

Eritas said:
In terms of lap time:

SS1LE < GT Performance Package 2 < pre-2019 GT350 < 2019 GT350 < GT350R < ZL1 1LE

Probably true, but most of it is still speculation. We haven't seen direct comparisons yet. And lap times are one of those elusive things - if you are a mere mortal behind the wheel like I am, driver skill variations are larger than the differences between some of those cars might be.

jake_zx2 said:
It's a car, everything is a consumable

How many track days does it take to wear out springs, sway bars and shocks?

There was a good deal on tires earlier this year. I bought two sets. How many spare springs, sway bars and shocks do you have on hand?

jake_zx2 · Jun 20, 2018

Hack said:
How many track days does it take to wear out springs, sway bars and shocks?

There was a good deal on tires earlier this year. I bought two sets. How many spare springs, sway bars and shocks do you have on hand?

Couldn't exactly say, but most competitive racers will rebuild/replace dampers and springs at least once per season. I have plenty of spare springs, shocks, and sway bars on hand, but all are for my other car, not my mustang. On the other hand, I only currently have 1 extra set of tires

cosmo · Jun 20, 2018

jake_zx2 said:
It's a car, everything is a consumable

Not in the same regards as tires, especially on track duty.

jake_zx2 said:
Haven't seen a single stock 2018 coyote failure yet. I've seen some trans issues, but that's why I mentioned the GT350's strong suit being the trans

There's a 600+ post page in the issues board. Many people reporting the same stuff that others are experiencing prior to failure. Search youtube as well, there are a bunch of youtubers experiencing failures.

Some are piston slap, others appear to be an actual problem.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102509

jake_zx2 said:
I wasn't talking about 1/4 mile times. I've aready done a highway pull from 40 against a stock GT350, ended right on his rear bumper by 130

I don't believe you. Either he started in 2nd, or I don't believe you. Physics is physics and 60 horsepower is 60 horsepower. Especially since the GT350 has a gearing advantage now vs the GT with the new MT 82 D4.

An automatic? Different story as the 10speed keeps you on peak power so often you can make up for a difference in power.

jake_zx2 said:
Wouldn't say that... even with the GT350 having cup2s, I still don't see there being a massive gap between the 2 cars. There's really no place other than brakes that the GT350 has a significant advantage, and even at that, its no difference that a set of AP brakes for the PP with the $15,000 you save against a GT350 wont fix.

At this point, you're buying a GT350 for the name. To say that the GT350 has an extra $15,000 worth of performance is ridiculous

I don't understand how you're forgoing 60 horsepower for no reason, not to mention gearing advantage. There isn't $15,000 in advantage, no. But there is an advantage.

The PP2 very well might be faster than pre-GT350's on tighter tracks and autocross, but I wouldn't bet on it on longer tracks without some tuning and modwork.

Hack · Jun 20, 2018

jake_zx2 said:
Couldn't exactly say, but most competitive racers will rebuild/replace dampers and springs at least once per season. I have plenty of spare springs, shocks, and sway bars on hand, but all are for my other car, not my mustang. On the other hand, I only currently have 1 extra set of tires

You have spare springs, shocks and sway bars that are identical to what's on the car, or you have various different parts that you have tried or might try?

How often do you discard and buy replacements?

No way are you wearing out springs, shocks and sway bars in a few months like tires get worn out.

jake_zx2 · Jun 20, 2018

cosmo said:
Not in the same regards as tires, especially on track duty.

There's a 600+ post page in the issues board. Many people reporting the same stuff that others are experiencing prior to failure. Search youtube as well, there are a bunch of youtubers experiencing failures.

Some are piston slap, others appear to be an actual problem.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102509

On the poll, only 5 people have actually had the problem, with 23 saying they THINK they MIGHT have the issue. So, of the tens of thousands of 2018 mustangs sold, we see 5 with engine problems.

That's a lot smaller percentage than the GT350. There's a reason that Ford even went to a cross plane in their own race car.

cosmo said:
I don't believe you. Either he started in 2nd, or I don't believe you. Physics is physics and 60 horsepower is 60 horsepower. Especially since the GT350 has a gearing advantage now vs the GT with the new MT 82 D4.

An automatic? Different story as the 10speed keeps you on peak power so often you can make up for a difference in power.

You can not believe me all you want, but it happened. 60 horsepower is 60 horsepower, but how they make it also matters. You can't always just look at on-paper numbers, you have to take real world performance into account.

cosmo said:
I don't understand how you're forgoing 60 horsepower for no reason, not to mention gearing advantage. There isn't $15,000 in advantage, no. But there is an advantage.

The PP2 very well might be faster than pre-GT350's on tighter tracks and autocross, but I wouldn't bet on it on longer tracks without some tuning and modwork.

I'm not "forgetting" it, I'm just not including it, because 60hp doesn't mean shit if it doesn't translate to anything. gearing advantage (if any) would be included in the transmission, which I already mentioned as an attribute

I don't know why you GT350 fanboys keep fighting me on this. First, you said that "only tires" wouldn't be enough to have the PP2 match the GT350, and now you're trying to make the excuse of swapping tires on the GT350. pro tip; If you have to mention making modifications to a car to make it better than another car, its because that car is worse and NEEDS the modifications

jake_zx2 · Jun 20, 2018

Hack said:
No way are you wearing out springs, shocks and sway bars in a few months like tires get worn out.

I don't understand why duration matters when you're talking about swapping perfectly good MPSS tires from the GT350 to put on cup2s simply for the performance benefit. If that's the case, then it doesn't matter when they will wear out, it's simply the fact that they'll be worn out eventually and need replaced, so why not upgrade?

rick81721 · Jun 20, 2018

jake_zx2 said:
On the poll, only 5 people have actually had the problem, with 23 saying they THINK they MIGHT have the issue. So, of the tens of thousands of 2018 mustangs sold, we see 5 with engine problems.

There are "10s of thousands" of 18 owners in that poll? Good lord... :doh:

nastang87xx · Jun 20, 2018

jake_zx2 said:
The GT350 horsepower advantage isn't really significant considering the 2018 will run fairly close with it in a straight line.

Wrong. That straight line is happening in the meat of the 350 rev range. The only chance the 3rd gen Coyote has is with the 10R80. Then the 350 needs to be on its toes.

nastang87xx · Jun 20, 2018

This guy LOVES trolling/cannibalizing other Mustang models...get off your high horse asshole.

cosmo · Jun 20, 2018

jake_zx2 said:
On the poll, only 5 people have actually had the problem, with 23 saying they THINK they MIGHT have the issue. So, of the tens of thousands of 2018 mustangs sold, we see 5 with engine problems.

That's a lot smaller percentage than the GT350. There's a reason that Ford even went to a cross plane in their own race car.

I'm well aware that Ford went aware from the flat plane, but they certainly didn't go to a 2018 cross plane :lol::lol::lol:

Read the thread. Others indicated failure and didn't respond to the poll. Like I said in my initial post, they'll fix it eventually but right now the 5.0L isn't so stout.

jake_zx2 said:
You can not believe me all you want, but it happened. 60 horsepower is 60 horsepower, but how they make it also matters. You can't always just look at on-paper numbers, you have to take real world performance into account.

I'm not "forgetting" it, I'm just not including it, because 60hp doesn't mean shit if it doesn't translate to anything. gearing advantage (if any) would be included in the transmission, which I already mentioned as an attribute

I told you. You either raced someone who wasn't in the proper gear or you're lying. 60 horsepower doesn't just disappear on 2 vehicles within 100 lbs of eachother with a gearing advantage on the vehicle with MORE power when you're dealing with manuals. :headbonk:

jake_zx2 said:
I don't know why you GT350 fanboys keep fighting me on this. First, you said that "only tires" wouldn't be enough to have the PP2 match the GT350, and now you're trying to make the excuse of swapping tires on the GT350. pro tip; If you have to mention making modifications to a car to make it better than another car, its because that car is worse and NEEDS the modifications

No idea, huh? You're just in the GT350 section trying to argue against the GT350, and can't piece together why people are telling you you're wrong? Crazy.

I've already said the PP2 is likely faster on a tighter track without as many straights or at autocross as the power difference won't be as apparent. The tires help in that situation. On a longer track, the GT350 can make up for the tire difference with power.

There's no excuse going on here. It's a fact. Tires are consumable and can be swapped when worn during a season. An experienced track driver will wear through their tires throughout the season, you should know this. You can then swap to whatever tire you prefer, like Cup 2s.

btown93 · Jun 20, 2018

[/QUOTE] I don't know why you GT350 fanboys keep fighting me on this. First, you said that "only tires" wouldn't be enough to have the PP2 match the GT350, and now you're trying to make the excuse of swapping tires on the GT350. pro tip; If you have to mention making modifications to a car to make it better than another car, its because that car is worse and NEEDS the modifications[/QUOTE]

I can't think of a bigger 2018 headlight, taillight or PP2 fanboy in the whole wide world than you. :first: :crazy:

Hack · Jun 20, 2018

jake_zx2 said:
I don't understand why duration matters when you're talking about swapping perfectly good MPSS tires from the GT350 to put on cup2s simply for the performance benefit. If that's the case, then it doesn't matter when they will wear out, it's simply the fact that they'll be worn out eventually and need replaced, so why not upgrade?

So do you have to swap out springs and shocks and sway bars a few times a year because they are worn out?

I've already replaced my tires a couple times on my GT350 because they were worn out. I put on factory spec tires, but I thought about it and made that decision. It would have been super easy to buy something else - I had to replace the tires anyway.

I agree with you that the comparison between the GT350 and GT PP2 should be completely stock vs. stock. I don't think we know which is faster on a given track. It will probably depend on the track as others have posted. I personally don't care which is faster when the difference is going to be very small - and in the real world people change out tires like they do shoes and socks.

Bottom line is: I really like my car, and I bet I would really like the new GT PP2 as well. The Coyote and Voodoo are very similar engines. To me, the Voodoo feels like a hot rodded Coyote. Both are very fun. I think the GT350 is more special, but the half life of performance automobiles is very short. That's how they get people to buy new cars.

2019 GT350 Upgrades: Tech, Aerodynamics and Other GT500 Track Improvements

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