Tuned EB Brief Misfires

^ Indeed - that’s underway.

Meanwhile...

After returning to stock programming (and re-installing factory plugs), I put the FoMoCo scan tool on and ran the car, and there were no misfires. It still coughs a bit during the first couple of minutes after starting up, but stays in the green zone on IDS.

The plot thickens!

* Update *

I was still fixated on a vac leak, and/or a source of un-metered air. And since the only recent change was the installation of the SCCC, I focused my attention on an intense investigation of that.

I was advised that there should be a one-way check valve in the vacuum side (front) hose...which I did not recall seeing @ installation. But -- although I did not recall seeing any check valve anywhere -- I wanted to be certain that I had not inadvertently installed the front hose on the rear side. Plus I needed to capture a photo of both hoses. So I removed them, and I discovered that indeed there is no check valve anywhere.

Unfortunately when I removed the factory PCV hose I broke one of its retaining clips, so a temporary re-installation of that hose is not an option (I have a new one on order) Therefore I re-installed the CC hoses as before, and am awaiting a follow-up from UPR.

Man i feel you. NEVER AGAIN ill put a catch can on this car. I switched to a radium baffle plate, radium valve and a new ford hose. Problem solved. Still, i also changed the spark plug seals tubes and boots. I now have a new car

I am intrigued! In the WTB section I have posted my desire for the Radium coolant expansion tank...so I am somewhat familiar with their stuff. But I've not come across the items you mention. Please post a pic, and if you could share some install-related info it would be greatly appreciated!

Also...

How did you learn of this alternative to catch cans? Is there testimony/data to indicate that this system is superior to the catch can solution? How long have you had yours installed? Did you do it yourself?

Your head gasket could be bad. If you are getting misfires, rough idling/driving for the first few minutes after startup, it could be a result of coolant leaking into one or more of your cylinders. The engine runs rough on startup because of the coolant in the cylinders then after the coolant has been burnt/expelled, it will run fine.

Go to a shop and have them do a head gasket check which takes only a few minutes.

I have a UPR single catch can and there is no check valve. The PCV valve is the check valve that prevents boost from entering the crankcase. All the catch cans from other manufactuers are the same way.

The fact the can sees boost pressure should have no impact on how the engine runs. I would be more concerned you have a vacuum leak at one of the connections when you installed the can.

ronemca said:

I am intrigued! In the WTB section I have posted my desire for the Radium coolant expansion tank...so I am somewhat familiar with their stuff. But I've not come across the items you mention. Please post a pic, and if you could share some install-related info it would be greatly appreciated!

Also...

How did you learn of this alternative to catch cans? Is there testimony/data to indicate that this system is superior to the catch can solution? How long have you had yours installed? Did you do it yourself?

Click to expand...

Pretty much whats on the link above. Full race also make one but personally i think the radium is better. The valve is included on the kit and The ford hose is a plain ol factory hose. The oem hoses sometimes look fine but are leaking.
It turns out the hose from the catch can kit pulled on the connector on the stock plate to the point it created a leak. Potholes and vibrations did it. When i took it out i could feel it loose.
I heard of it first via adam from tune+, he had a plate and can option that sat real close to the pcv itself. I wanted it and he stopped selling it. It was replaced with this, just a plate. Before that i had the upr setup, sure enough the car did the same thing yours did and it got worse and worse. Sometimes it would idle rough for a good 5 mins. And then one day it just wouldnt start. I was also getting cylinder 1 and 2 misfire and also getting oil on plugs. So just in case i replaced the boots and the seals and tubes around the plugs, and the cover and head gasket for good measure. Sounds like a lot but youre not even looking at 300$ with plate, hose, seals, gaskets and all.

I did do the plate job myself although my buddy removed the intake manifold after watching me cuss at it for a while. It CAN be done without removing it but it's super tight. Just remove it. Its not that bad, disconect the charge pipe, disconect whatever plugs you see (theres a mass senosr plug there) and unbolt it. After that it's a couple of screws on the plastic flimsy oem pcv plate to remove it, connect the new hose to the new valve on the new plate and poof youre done. Like always, it sounds way more complicated than it is

Nonsequitur said:

Your head gasket could be bad. If you are getting misfires, rough idling/driving for the first few minutes after startup, it could be a result of coolant leaking into one or more of your cylinders. The engine runs rough on startup because of the coolant in the cylinders then after the coolant has been burnt/expelled, it will run fine.

Go to a shop and have them do a head gasket check which takes only a few minutes.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the suggestion! A leak-down test was recommended by a friend, which I'm guessing would reveal this fault and check the valve seats at the same time(?) But wouldn't burning coolant produce white smoke? And -- if the anomalous engine operation only occurs for 90 seconds after start-up (after which the leaked coolant has burned off) -- how/when does the coolant enter the cylinder(s)? I would like to understand.

And to 'lisandra' - many thanks! I'm sure you're right - these surgeries often sound alot worse than they really are. 'Til then there are still a few [diagnostic] hoops to be jumped through, after which I will give this alternative serious consideration! (IME, manifolds always seem to be mounted with a gasket, and those gaskets typically tear or are half stuck to the manifold and half to whatever surface the manifold is coming away from. Is that the case with this operation?)

Has anyone else installed a Radium plate to replace the OE PCV? Please share thoughts/opinions!

ronemca said:

Thank you for the suggestion! A leak-down test was recommended by a friend, which I'm guessing would reveal this fault and check the valve seats at the same time(?) But wouldn't burning coolant produce white smoke? And -- if the anomalous engine operation only occurs for 90 seconds after start-up (after which the leaked coolant has burned off) -- how/when does the coolant enter the cylinder(s)? I would like to understand

Click to expand...

The leak down test is used to test cylinder compression.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/impp-1108-blown-head-gasket-diagnostic/

Link above shows the testing tool. There is usually white smoke but if the leak is small, it could be confused with the normal white steam that comes out of your exhaust during cold starts. The coolant usually leaks into your cylinders slowly after you turn off your engine causing the rough running symptoms during cold startup. If you're getting the rough running symptom 90 seconds after startup, then your issue might be elsewhere.

Just thought that since it's a very easy test, could just eliminate this possibility quickly. ;)

ronemca said:

Thank you for the suggestion! A leak-down test was recommended by a friend, which I'm guessing would reveal this fault and check the valve seats at the same time(?) But wouldn't burning coolant produce white smoke? And -- if the anomalous engine operation only occurs for 90 seconds after start-up (after which the leaked coolant has burned off) -- how/when does the coolant enter the cylinder(s)? I would like to understand.

And to 'lisandra' - many thanks! I'm sure you're right - these surgeries often sound alot worse than they really are. 'Til then there are still a few [diagnostic] hoops to be jumped through, after which I will give this alternative serious consideration! (IME, manifolds always seem to be mounted with a gasket, and those gaskets typically tear or are half stuck to the manifold and half to whatever surface the manifold is coming away from. Is that the case with this operation?)

Has anyone else installed a Radium plate to replace the OE PCV? Please share thoughts/opinions!

Click to expand...

Ill save you a trip, even if its a small coolant leak, you should be missing some coolant from the tank itself. Check the coolant tank. The coolant enters the cylinder because the head gasket is worn or broken or whatever. You see, coolant goes through certain pathways along the head through the gasket, if the gasket is worn or broken the coolant strays of the path and ends up on the cylinder. If it's small it gets burn off quickly enough when you are driving around but once you stop the car and it's cooling down it pools on the cylinder. This will only get worse. Good news is you can take the opportunity to upgrare and get one from brian crower or je pistons. Theyre waaay better. You can also get apr studs and such while youre there and have double insurance

^ ^ I'm most grateful for your information! Many thanks. I have not lost any coolant. Further- and in the interest and spirit of experience-sharing - I have a new stance:

Since the retention clip on the factory hose was broken on CC install day, the factory hose was n/a to re-install for experimentation. Therefore - when I removed the UPR-provided hoses for photographing - I had no choice but to put those same 2 hoses back in order to continue my daily driving.

That was five days and many cold starts ago...and my mysterious issue has vanished.

At CC install time - and on several occasions since - I have wiggled & tugged many times on the 4 connections. And I have disconnected & reconnected both hoses from the can several times. On every one of those occasions, it seemed as if the connections were correct & secure.

However...

The only explanation for my problem vanishing is that one (or more) of the 4 UPR hose connections was in fact not sealing properly - and since I removed the hoses completely and put them back 5 minutes later - I inadvertently solved the problem.

It was happening every single time I started after an hour or more of not running, so I can certainly tell the difference! And while I am a little frustrated at not knowing for sure what was wrong, I am mightily relieved!

And you were right - the SCCC does not come with a CV. But I will very likely add one ASAP.

* * Addendum:
In contemplating the plate option...
Does it still employ a PCV valve? I ask because IMO, any oil that *may* be transported out of the crankcase is not literally liquid oil like a full bucket that is sloshing over the top; it is actually vapour, yes? And if a percentage of that vapour is going to escape the crankcase regardless of whether there's a factory PCV valve or a Radium plate (or both)...how is the plate better than not-the-plate?

ronemca said:

* * Addendum:
In contemplating the plate option...
Does it still employ a PCV valve? I ask because IMO, any oil that *may* be transported out of the crankcase is not literally liquid oil like a full bucket that is sloshing over the top; it is actually vapour, yes? And if a percentage of that vapour is going to escape the crankcase regardless of whether there's a factory PCV valve or a Radium plate (or both)...how is the plate better than not-the-plate?

Click to expand...

The PCV valve is a calibrated vacuum leak in that it throttles the amount of air flow through the crank case into the engine. Plus in a turbo engine it acts as a check valve to prevent boost from flowing back into the engine. You need a PCV valve.

Whether it is the factory baffle or an aftermarket baffle they prevent oil in vapor form entering the engine by causing the air flow to change direction through the baffle. When air changes direction it slows down and the oil held in suspension drops out and drains back into the crankcase. A catch can works in the same way.

Alright - I see that.

So - is there a baffled plate on the engine from the factory? It never occurred to me to examine it that closely! And if the answer is "Yes"...how is the aftermarket baffled plate better? (Or is it mostly a gimmick IYO)?

Thanks, Dave.

Aftermarket plates usually have bigger and/or more baffling than the stock one. They also usually come with a more robust PCV valve to prevent boosted air from entering your crankcase.

I have a '14 Focus ST with a built engine running a EFR7163 pumping out 35 PSI. It has a Radium catch can (also installed a 100 PSI check valve just for more insurance) and PCV plate along with a oil cap breather. Doesn't burn oil and I only have to empty the catch can once every other oil change.