"Venom Kills Demons" - Jim Owens (Ford Performance Marketing Manager)

Darkane · Feb 13, 2018

Hack said:
Oh, I thought you were talking about the GT500. I don't really think a GT350R with hybrid systems added would stay under 3800 lbs. Doesn't seem possible to me. Obviously the GT500 will be heavier right off the bat with larger brakes, a blower, intercooler, plumbing, etc.

I do see where if someone was using the GT350R for street duty only with no track time they might want more low end torque.

48V system is light man! There’s many form of electronic assist and propolsion.

This is the most basic, smallest, least intrusive. You can’t drive in all electric power, has zero electric range. It’s a power adder, like a SC or turbo.

Or in term of economy it’s a means of allowing the engine much less fuel input by taking some of the cruising load to allow lower emissions and higher mpg.

Also, there are zero plug ins with this system. Can’t be charged by a socket. It’s great actually.

ttime500 · Feb 13, 2018

Falc'man said:
[MENTION=12069]Hack[/MENTION], considering the CAFE averages have had a spanner thrown into the works it is less relevant that fuel averages be prioritized, but as mentioned, the nature of a software-controlled electric motor can provide a superior launch to LC from combustion engines. It really is embarrassing to have a Tesla of all things humiliate every car on the road so it's time it got a dose of it's own.

The question, big concern I have is adding the instant torque going to be helpful if it’s still a RWD car?

machsmith · Feb 13, 2018

in a drag car type set up it would be nice. suspension, DR's.

Hack · Feb 13, 2018

Falc'man said:
[MENTION=12069]Hack[/MENTION], considering the CAFE averages have had a spanner thrown into the works it is less relevant that fuel averages be prioritized, but as mentioned, the nature of a software-controlled electric motor can provide a superior launch to LC from combustion engines. It really is embarrassing to have a Tesla of all things humiliate every car on the road so it's time it got a dose of it's own.

AWD will almost always be quicker than RWD on launch, unless you have a rear engine vehicle like a Porsche 911. Even with a rear engine it still has to be the right setup to give good launches.

Like I said, it's more about available traction than anything else.

Hack · Feb 13, 2018

Darkane said:
48V system is light man! There’s many form of electronic assist and propolsion.

This is the most basic, smallest, least intrusive. You can’t drive in all electric power, has zero electric range. It’s a power adder, like a SC or turbo.

Or in term of economy it’s a means of allowing the engine much less fuel input by taking some of the cruising load to allow lower emissions and higher mpg.

Also, there are zero plug ins with this system. Can’t be charged by a socket. It’s great actually.

If electric systems are so light, why does the Tesla Model S weigh so much?

Darkane · Feb 13, 2018

Hack said:
If electric systems are so light, why does the Tesla Model S weigh so much?

Because it’s an electric vehicle.

We’re not talking about that.

Bosch has a 48V battery that can do about 15hp and 50tq maximum output and the battery weighs 7kg! That’s it.

The motor part replaces the alternator and becomes a motor that supplies power via the belt to the crank pulley. It also becomes a generator when needed and can also accept power via regenerative braking.

A simple cheap system like it weighs under 60 lbs, and in fact a Very mild hybrid system by Bosch that does 6Kw and 40tq or so can weigh as little as 33lbs.

The heavy ass hybrid are 400V systems and the lure electric are just ultra heavy because of the battery pack required to discharge the power required. All the cables are super heavy too.

I’m a big fan of these new mild hybrid 48V system. They’re going to allow the ICE to live on.

Nameless · Feb 13, 2018

Hack said:
If electric systems are so light, why does the Tesla Model S weigh so much?

Darkane said:
Because it’s an electric vehicle.

We’re not talking about that.

Bosch has a 48V battery that can do about 15hp and 50tq maximum output and the battery weighs 7kg! That’s it.

The motor part replaces the alternator and becomes a motor that supplies power via the belt to the crank pulley. It also becomes a generator when needed and can also accept power via regenerative braking.

A simple cheap system like it weighs under 60 lbs, and in fact a Very mild hybrid system by Bosch that does 6Kw and 40tq or so can weigh as little as 33lbs.

The heavy ass hybrid are 400V systems and the lure electric are just ultra heavy because of the battery pack required to discharge the power required. All the cables are super heavy too.

I’m a big fan of these new mild hybrid 48V system. They’re going to allow the ICE to live on.

Well, the curb weight difference between the Fusion and Fusion Hybrid is less than 200lb and that would be a full hybrid, not a Mild one..

Zitrosounds · Feb 13, 2018

Hack said:
If electric systems are so light, why does the Tesla Model S weigh so much?

Batteries

Hack · Feb 13, 2018

Darkane said:
Because it’s an electric vehicle.

We’re not talking about that.

Bosch has a 48V battery that can do about 15hp and 50tq maximum output and the battery weighs 7kg! That’s it.

The motor part replaces the alternator and becomes a motor that supplies power via the belt to the crank pulley. It also becomes a generator when needed and can also accept power via regenerative braking.

A simple cheap system like it weighs under 60 lbs, and in fact a Very mild hybrid system by Bosch that does 6Kw and 40tq or so can weigh as little as 33lbs.

The heavy ass hybrid are 400V systems and the lure electric are just ultra heavy because of the battery pack required to discharge the power required. All the cables are super heavy too.

I’m a big fan of these new mild hybrid 48V system. They’re going to allow the ICE to live on.

I don't care how light it is, if it only adds 15 HP there's no way it's worth it.

Zitrosounds said:
Batteries

Without batteries you can't store power. I understand you can make the batteries smaller if you are only using electrics to add power for a short time, but any power boost will require batteries, and the more power you want, the heavier the batteries will be.

superman07 · Feb 13, 2018

I would trade 50 Tq when needed for 30 pounds.

Zitrosounds · Feb 13, 2018

Hack said:
I don't care how light it is, if it only adds 15 HP there's no way it's worth it.

Without batteries you can't store power. I understand you can make the batteries smaller if you are only using electrics to add power for a short time, but any power boost will require batteries, and the more power you want, the heavier the batteries will be.

I was only answering your question as to why the S is so heavy. The batteries account for the majority of the additional weight not the elec motors. My wife wanted a Tesla. I talked her out of it and instead bought another Audi : )

machsmith · Feb 13, 2018

My wife wanted a Tesla too. I told her to forget it, she wasn't getting it. When prices hit 75K for a 4500 lb 1000HP AWD, 300 mile range, 10 minute charging car, I'll probably get one.
That isn't for a decade yet.

Hack · Feb 13, 2018

superman07 said:
I would trade 50 Tq when needed for 30 pounds.

In a Fiesta or another light economy car, yes. In a car that will spin the tires at any speed - probably up to 60 mph or more, why?

Zitrosounds said:
I was only answering your question as to why the S is so heavy. The batteries account for the majority of the additional weight not the elec motors. My wife wanted a Tesla. I talked her out of it and instead bought another Audi : )

Gotcha on the weight thing. 1,200 lbs are batteries on the model S. The electric motor supposedly only weighs 70 lbs.

Don't get me wrong, I like the model S styling. Very striking. I'm not into 4 doors or cars that aren't powered by explosions, though.

machsmith said:
My wife wanted a Tesla too. I told her to forget it, she wasn't getting it. When prices hit 75K for a 4500 lb 1000HP AWD, 300 mile range, 10 minute charging car, I'll probably get one.
That isn't for a decade yet.

Even 10 minutes is a terribly long time IMO; I agree that charging and range are the biggest limitations right now - aside from a sky high price. With the Tesla sitting in stop and go traffic in the middle of a snow storm with the front and rear defrost on high, lights on, radio on, seat heaters, etc. I wonder what the range is?

Falc'man · Feb 13, 2018

ttime500 said:
The question, big concern I have is adding the instant torque going to be helpful if it’s still a RWD car?

No, you'd better adding the exact amount of controlled torque to give superior launch to what you could achieve from a combustion engine.

Dary · Feb 13, 2018

Falc'man said:
No, you'd better adding the exact amount of controlled torque to give superior launch to what you could achieve from a combustion engine.

This^

And to smooth/compensate shift delays.

"Venom Kills Demons" - Jim Owens (Ford Performance Marketing Manager)

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