"Venom Kills Demons" - Jim Owens (Ford Performance Marketing Manager)

Nameless · Feb 12, 2018

I would like to have a "TwinCharged Hybrid System" (Electric "Supercharger", plus a sequential turbo system).

The electrical system to feed the engine with high pressured air creating virtually 0% turbo lag (Like an "Anti-lag" system). That would be Insane.

Or maybe just a set of "hybrid-electric Turbos", like regular turbos but aided with electricity in order to build boost.

Darkane · Feb 12, 2018

Nameless said:
I would like to have a "TwinCharged Hybrid System" (Electric "Supercharger", plus a sequential turbo system).

The electrical system to feed the engine with high pressured air creating virtually 0% turbo lag (Like an "Anti-lag" system). That would be Insane.

Or maybe just a set of "hybrid-electric Turbos", like regular turbos but aided with electricity in order to build boost.

That’s what AMG is doing. Going to be awesome.

[MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION] [MENTION=33371]Farruko[/MENTION]

Can a beltless 48V mild hybrid be placed in the current chassis? I’d wager it could.

Ford could belt out (pun intended) a significant amount of extra power.

@All the new Ram is a 48V system and can generate an additional 130tq from a standstill!

Wish list: GT350, port/DI VOODOO 560/440, DCT, 48V hybrid system.

3800lbs. Very doable and combined would be 560/550+ (Initial torque boost).

Lol. Ford would have to go belt driven system for cost though - probably.

Darkane · Feb 12, 2018

Thinking about it some more, that wouldn’t work. The belt driven system would likely have a clutch to disengage, say 3000rpm. It would be great for initial, and maintaining cylinder deactivation. Not applicable for us.

Hmm, back to the drawing board.

Nameless · Feb 12, 2018

Darkane said:
That’s what AMG is doing. Going to be awesome.

[MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION] [MENTION=33371]Farruko[/MENTION]

Can a beltless 48V mild hybrid be placed in the current chassis? I’d wager it could.

“I don’t know ;) (wink wink)”

(I hope that kind of answer from them :( hahaha, they always do it like that)

Can you guys please answer us like that? Tease us something else

You said that we will be able to see the hybrid Mustang during S550, right [MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION]?

ttime500 · Feb 12, 2018

Nameless said:
“I don’t know ;) (wink wink)”

(I hope that kind of answer from them :( hahaha, they always do it like that)

Can you guys please answer us like that? Tease us something else
You said that we will be able to see the hybrid Mustang during S550, right [MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION]?

Don’t know if we’ll get a direct answer but I did specifically asked if we’d see a hybrid S550 and got that yes like answer!!

xt6wagon · Feb 13, 2018

Darkane said:
That’s what AMG is doing. Going to be awesome.

[MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION] [MENTION=33371]Farruko[/MENTION]

Can a beltless 48V mild hybrid be placed in the current chassis? I’d wager it could.

Ford could belt out (pun intended) a significant amount of extra power.

@All the new Ram is a 48V system and can generate an additional 130tq from a standstill!

Wish list: GT350, port/DI VOODOO 560/440, DCT, 48V hybrid system.

3800lbs. Very doable and combined would be 560/550+ (Initial torque boost).

Lol. Ford would have to go belt driven system for cost though - probably.

The current Porsche system uses a module between the engine and transmission. Which would be my preference as it would move the weight of the transmission back on the non-hybrids, and make the Hybrids quite normal in operation as it would just be torque on the input shaft like the gas engine itself.

Hack · Feb 13, 2018

Falc'man said:
I'd rather a system where instant torque is available from zero rpm, and from that same system the added advantage of less emissions and better fuel economy than you would get from a blown system, which itself doesn't exactly weigh nothing.

Forced induction also dumps extra fuel into the system to keep everything running cooler under load - look at the Ford GT's fuel economy... there's simply no "eco" in Ecoboost. No such issues when the engine's optimised in n.a. form.

It's like you're adding at least another 2 litres of capacity to your 5 litres and then getting the economy of a 2 litre engine. How much would a 7 litre weigh, and how much extra space would it take to fit?

Not sure why you want torque at zero RPM. Are you afraid the GT500 engine won't have enough torque to spin the tires from a standstill? Or are you buying into some marketing spin from an electric car company?

Regarding engine weight, google says the old Boss 302 pushrod Ford motor weighed about 500 lbs, the Coyote weighs about 444 and an old all iron big block Ford weighs about 650. I would guess a 7 liter might weigh between 100 and 150 llbs more than a 5 liter, given both engines are a similar configuration. I think it would be a challenge to make a powerful hybrid system weigh less than that. Plus a 7 liter engine has the advantages of being simple and inexpensive to build and maintain. Also it doesn't use the toxic battery materials that modern hybrid systems are generally constructed from.

Not sure why you are talking about fuel economy in a GT500 thread. Could you explain why it's relevant?

Darkane said:
That’s what AMG is doing. Going to be awesome.

[MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION] [MENTION=33371]Farruko[/MENTION]

Can a beltless 48V mild hybrid be placed in the current chassis? I’d wager it could.

Ford could belt out (pun intended) a significant amount of extra power.

@All the new Ram is a 48V system and can generate an additional 130tq from a standstill!

Wish list: GT350, port/DI VOODOO 560/440, DCT, 48V hybrid system.

3800lbs. Very doable and combined would be 560/550+ (Initial torque boost).

Lol. Ford would have to go belt driven system for cost though - probably.

How are they going to add all that without adding weight? Making the hybrid parts from helium?

machsmith · Feb 13, 2018

xt6wagon said:
The current Porsche system uses a module between the engine and transmission. Which would be my preference as it would move the weight of the transmission back on the non-hybrids, and make the Hybrids quite normal in operation as it would just be torque on the input shaft like the gas engine itself.

that's what Ford has been testing, electric motor between engine and trans.

BmacIL · Feb 13, 2018

machsmith said:
that's what Ford has been testing, electric motor between engine and trans.

Correct.

65Terdlingua · Feb 13, 2018

Hack said:
Not sure why you want torque at zero RPM. Are you afraid the GT500 engine won't have enough torque to spin the tires from a standstill? Or are you buying into some marketing spin from an electric car company?

Hack, by chance have you ever driven a Model S or similar? The brutal acceleration from a stand still is absolutely incredible and very addicting. Now, I've never driven a GT500, but surely not even the Trinity has that much kick from a stand still. Not that I'm saying the new 500 is getting anything hybrid, or that this is an apples to apples comparison of what a future Mustang could get, but that acceleration is crazy.

Darkane · Feb 13, 2018

Hack said:
Not sure why you want torque at zero RPM. Are you afraid the GT500 engine won't have enough torque to spin the tires from a standstill? Or are you buying into some marketing spin from an electric car company?

Regarding engine weight, google says the old Boss 302 pushrod Ford motor weighed about 500 lbs, the Coyote weighs about 444 and an old all iron big block Ford weighs about 650. I would guess a 7 liter might weigh between 100 and 150 llbs more than a 5 liter, given both engines are a similar configuration. I think it would be a challenge to make a powerful hybrid system weigh less than that. Plus a 7 liter engine has the advantages of being simple and inexpensive to build and maintain. Also it doesn't use the toxic battery materials that modern hybrid systems are generally constructed from.

Not sure why you are talking about fuel economy in a GT500 thread. Could you explain why it's relevant?

How are they going to add all that without adding weight? Making the hybrid parts from helium?

The 48V system is light. The battery is very small, in the ram for example it’s under 1Kw.

I was spitballing an R model at 3800 lbs.

Darkane · Feb 13, 2018

xt6wagon said:
The current Porsche system uses a module between the engine and transmission. Which would be my preference as it would move the weight of the transmission back on the non-hybrids, and make the Hybrids quite normal in operation as it would just be torque on the input shaft like the gas engine itself.

Exactly. That’s the beltless system.

The cheaper belt driven system like the Ram ties in the power right at the crank shaft pulley.

Despite adding the 48V system Ram is still lighter than last gen. not much to a 48V system.

Hack · Feb 13, 2018

Darkane said:
The 48V system is light. The battery is very small, in the ram for example it’s under 1Kw.

I was spitballing an R model at 3800 lbs.

Oh, I thought you were talking about the GT500. I don't really think a GT350R with hybrid systems added would stay under 3800 lbs. Doesn't seem possible to me. Obviously the GT500 will be heavier right off the bat with larger brakes, a blower, intercooler, plumbing, etc.

I do see where if someone was using the GT350R for street duty only with no track time they might want more low end torque.

Hack · Feb 13, 2018

65Terdlingua said:
Hack, by chance have you ever driven a Model S or similar? The brutal acceleration from a stand still is absolutely incredible and very addicting. Now, I've never driven a GT500, but surely not even the Trinity has that much kick from a stand still. Not that I'm saying the new 500 is getting anything hybrid, or that this is an apples to apples comparison of what a future Mustang could get, but that acceleration is crazy.

No I've never driven a Model S. I could see where the fact that the batteries (weight) can be moved around to provide more traction and the fact that it's AWD can help traction.

My point about spinning the tires is that more traction is needed to improve acceleration, not more power. The GT500 will have plenty enough power to spin the tires. Adding hybrid complexity doesn't seem like the most effective way to improve traction to me. I'm willing to be proven wrong, though.

Falc'man · Feb 13, 2018

[MENTION=12069]Hack[/MENTION], considering the CAFE averages have had a spanner thrown into the works it is less relevant that fuel averages be prioritized, but as mentioned, the nature of a software-controlled electric motor can provide a superior launch to LC from combustion engines. It really is embarrassing to have a Tesla of all things humiliate every car on the road so it's time it got a dose of it's own.

"Venom Kills Demons" - Jim Owens (Ford Performance Marketing Manager)

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