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Ebm

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LOLz, I don't NEED to do anything.
If you don't want a catch can, don't buy a catch can.

If you have more than 40K miles on your EBM - take off the intake manifold and look at the valves. Have you done this? I have.

If you have more than 4K miles on your EBM - take off the clean or dirty side hoses and run a Q-tip through them. Have you done this? I have.

YOU can come up with any number of theories on this and apply them to YOUR vehicle any way YOU see fit. It is not ANYONES responsibility to prove to you, or provide evidence to you as YOUR education is YOUR business.
Unless I've missed something, you are not the Mod-Police and I haven't seen a subpoena, until then, enjoy.

What's funny here is that you are getting defensive of the choice you made to get a catch can, yet you then blow it off and act like you don't need to prove anything.

You've provided no real evidence here other than saying you have "anecdotal evidence." Your anecdotal evidence is pure bullshit unless you have pictures or a trustworthy source like Ford. On top of that, you aren't defending the need for a catch can, you are just stating that our engines have carbon deposits because they are direct injected. As I stated earlier, I am aware our engines have carbon deposits, but that doesn't justify the need for a catch can. Show me an engine that has a catch can versus one that doesn't instead of talking nonsense.

So much irony on internet forums. ;)
 

EcoBOSS

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I don't need to prove anything to [Troll].
I did my research, I checked my factory parts, I researched available parts and decided it was best to go with a complete custom set up to address issues I found on MY vehicle. I've been doing this for some time and I write my own tunes.

I refuse to provide "evidence" to someone not willing to look - "You can lead a troll to water, but you can't make them think."

You can also choose to not get a catch can. Someone famous once said "If you like your current PCV System, you can KEEP your PCV system." - or something like that.

Anyhow, you too can enjoy.
 

OlTexastang

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What's funny here is that you are getting defensive of the choice you made to get a catch can, yet you then blow it off and act like you don't need to prove anything.

You've provided no real evidence here other than saying you have "anecdotal evidence." Your anecdotal evidence is pure bullshit unless you have pictures or a trustworthy source like Ford. On top of that, you aren't defending the need for a catch can, you are just stating that our engines have carbon deposits because they are direct injected. As I stated earlier, I am aware our engines have carbon deposits, but that doesn't justify the need for a catch can. Show me an engine that has a catch can versus one that doesn't instead of talking nonsense.

So much irony on internet forums. ;)
So if you know our engines have carbon build up and some people make the choice to run a catch can because they think it may help what's the issue better safe than sorry. You guys can argue this till your blue in the face but until some one performs a test catch can vs non catch can all we have are opinions. Some opinions make more sense than others but it still comes down to choice. I would rather know that I took all the measures to keep my car protected and if someone proves after 50000 miles that a catch can wasn't necessary then I spent a couple hundred dollars and added some unnecessary hoses and a can to my car.
 

EcoBOSS

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So, go out and buy 6 new EBMs made on the same day, from the same factory, preferably with sequential VINs and identical mileage. Install each of the available systems on it, leave one stock and do one homemade. Make sure to hire robot drivers that are all programmed from the same developer to rule out "driver mods" and test them each day, ALL AT THE SAME TIME so that the results will make a viable white paper.

Peer review, Publish, Profit!!!!
You see the problem? It's NOT going to happen.

Do or Do Not.
It's you, your money, your vehicle, your call.

Looking forward to the post at 50K asking about erratic idle, and random misfires.
Again, Enjoy.
 

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Ebm

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I don't need to prove anything to [Troll].
I did my research, I checked my factory parts, I researched available parts and decided it was best to go with a complete custom set up to address issues I found on MY vehicle. I've been doing this for some time and I write my own tunes.

I refuse to provide "evidence" to someone not willing to look - "You can lead a troll to water, but you can't make them think."

You can also choose to not get a catch can. Someone famous once said "If you like your current PCV System, you can KEEP your PCV system." - or something like that.

Anyhow, you too can enjoy.

Easy there Seabiscuit. Just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean I'm a troll. There are several people on here that agree with me that a catch can does jack. I also know that there are several on here that believe it's a must. I just want someone to have an informed opinion rather than to take someone at face value, especially on a forum. The thing is, your research doesn't mean anything to someone else. All they see is words on a screen. What helps someone, is a picture. What helps someone, is an opinion of a Ford tech that has broken down several 2.3s and looked at them thoroughly after 50k, 75k, or 100k miles.

I get it, some people fall for the bs marketing of a company saying you have to have our product. It will save your engine. That's how companies stay in business. It's cool man. It happens.

I just want to know why you are still getting defensive? You post multiple times back to back to add more information to back up your claim, then blow it off like you don't care. If you didn't care, you wouldn't respond. You obviously care.



So if you know our engines have carbon build up and some people make the choice to run a catch can because they think it may help what's the issue better safe than sorry. You guys can argue this till your blue in the face but until some one performs a test catch can vs non catch can all we have are opinions. Some opinions make more sense than others but it still comes down to choice. I would rather know that I took all the measures to keep my car protected and if someone proves after 50000 miles that a catch can wasn't necessary then I spent a couple hundred dollars and added some unnecessary hoses and a can to my car.
You are right, I did say our engines have carbon build up. It's a product of the combustion engine in general, carbon. I never said it was enough to be an issue though. Instead of using a catch can, something more worth your while would be WMI or E85.
 

EcoBOSS

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Stand your ground! Be your own "person"! Walk proudly down the less beaten path!

"We Will NOT Catch Can"
#WWNCC!!!

Enjoy.
 

Marvinmadman

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On my current setup, no CC would mean that my 2.3 would smoke (burn oil) immediately on startup and beyond. CC completely eliminated that 100%. So my theory and opinion is that my CC works.
 

TorqueMan

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I don't need to prove anything to [Troll]. I refuse to provide "evidence" to someone not willing to look
I stated unequivocally that I DID look for data. There is a lot of discussion of carbon buildup around the internet, especially regarding cars from BMW, VW and Audi. I haven't found any data suggesting the same problem exists for Ford's 4cyl EB engines. I've found exactly the opposite, in fact.

https://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-archive/2011/06/direct-injection-fouls-some-early-adopters.html

Stephen Russ, technical leader for combustion for Ford’s 2-liter Duratec DI engine, said that similar to GM, engineers have determined the proper injection-timing calibration to help eliminate the carbon deposits. But Russ also said the technology of injection components – particularly the high-pressure solenoid injectors – has quickly matured, meaning excess valve deposits in most DI engines should become a thing of the past as these improved components are incorporated into production.
Note that this article dates from 2011.

Please note that I'm not saying a catch can is bad (although it does add complexity, which increases the chance of system failure), I'm simply saying I don't believe its benefits are worth the cost in both money and time.

BTW, disagreement with you ≠ trolling. Disagreement is how people learn; one person expresses an opinion or states what they believe to be fact and another shows them where they are wrong. I'm perfectly willing to change my mind if presented with data and evidence. How 'bout you?
 

TorqueMan

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On my current setup, no CC would mean that my 2.3 would smoke (burn oil) immediately on startup and beyond. CC completely eliminated that 100%. So my theory and opinion is that my CC works.
Can you be more specific? Ford issued a TSB to address smoking issues in 2015 and early 2016 EB Mustangs. It required replacing the factory vent oil separator. Do you know if this TSB applied to your car or not?
 

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Marvinmadman

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In my case, I installed a catless DP. If the PCV system is that finicky, I feel that a CC is a good purchase. I went through BBQ cake valves with a few turbo engines to know better than betting against one. Most recent was my 2012 Flex 3.5 TT. I have pics of those at 80k if you'd like them.
 

TorqueMan

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In my case, I installed a catless DP. If the PCV system is that finicky, I feel that a CC is a good purchase. I went through BBQ cake valves with a few turbo engines to know better than betting against one. Most recent was my 2012 Flex 3.5 TT. I have pics of those at 80k if you'd like them.
I don't believe it's an issue of being finicky, I think the oil separator they installed initially wasn't up to the task. My car doesn't smoke at all.

I've read about the problems with the 3.5 engine; they are well documented. It also seems to be hit and miss--some cars have an issue while most don't. I'm not sure if the 3.5L EB uses the same technology as the 4cyl engines to combat carbon deposits. Have you seen anything around the web regarding carbon deposits with the EB Mustang?

In the cases I read about, the carbon issues with 3.5 engines cropped up much earlier than 80K miles--usually around 20K. Did your Flex suffer usuability issues due to the carbon buildup (rough idle and stumbling under acceleration seem to be the most common)? If so, when did they first occur?
 

Marvinmadman

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I've seen pics in here from a 2.3 a while back with mild deposits. It hadn't gotten to the point of something a normal person would realize that something was off in the Flex. It slowly started losing MPGs and the occasional stumble first happened around 60kish. I manually cleaned them and worked with UPR to design a bolt in kit for them. Traded it in at 130kish miles and the valves looked the same as when I cleaned them. I also had it tuned by Torrie. Quick little refrigerator with wheels that thing was :lol:
 

FraG

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Lets use simple logic. Why do we use insurance? I haven't had an accident since I got T-Boned on my motorcycle in 2005, yet I have insurance. So I have paid over 20k insurance and not used it...

$200-400 is a pretty cheap insurance policy without the need to prove God exists.

I have emptied my catch can once, and see the shit that came out of it that would have otherwise gone through the intake. So not just carbon build up but the possible octane reduction during WOT/Boost events which can cause an issue with the tuned car.

Its a no brainer, sure it may be unicorn tears but for the piddly amount it costs and the relatively easy install (The hose removal was PITA) I see this as a really dumb argument. But hey, you forge your own path :)
 
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articrandom

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So much good info here!

Now I'm questioning the catch can purchase. Should I just get an extended warranty and put the $200 towards the extended warranty from Ford?
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