Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

Vernichtung · Feb 12, 2018

MrMcCroder said:
I just read this article myself and I didnt feel they favored the 1LE outside of just facts, they even admitted to trying to get a pp2 to compare but didnt have access to one, and they said on their "cowboy science" measurements that the mustang was better in almost every way but when it came to legitimate testing, the numbers were all in favor of the camaro. I dont think they favored either car, they just went with the numbers given in 2 totally different scenarios.

Well-stated, my friend. I couldn’t agree more.

16 GT MM/Auto · Feb 12, 2018

airfuel said:
This thread is getting as bad as the old butt hurt 15-17 owners thread!

Some people don't understand that "internet forum" means a place where people exchange ideas! :crazy:

16 GT MM/Auto · Feb 12, 2018

MrMcCroder said:
I just read this article myself and I didnt feel they favored the 1LE outside of just facts, they even admitted to trying to get a pp2 to compare but didnt have access to one, and they said on their "cowboy science" measurements that the mustang was better in almost every way but when it came to legitimate testing, the numbers were all in favor of the camaro. I dont think they favored either car, they just went with the numbers given in 2 totally different scenarios.

Well said. So ...

Camaro pulls the numbers by a few tenths against a non-similarly equipped Mustang
People like/choose Mustangs over Camaros regardless of how the latter performs

Got it.

Stage_3 · Feb 12, 2018

Snagged said:
Lol, well there you go, you know the car well then. And very nice. I was drooling over those cars when back then. I had a 94 GT with its earth shattering 215 HP .
Chevy really got it right with those cars. I saw one on the road the other day but it was in pretty bad shape. Still looked good however! ha They were certainly the street kings back in their day.
But getting a Roush Mustang is certainly a nice move. I love the looks and power of those too.

LOL
Thanks man. Yeah, this is my very first Ford/very first Mustang.
I just can't wait for the weather to turn to drive it again. :headbonk: :tsk:

saleen367 · Mar 5, 2018

I know Billy Johnson had a hand in helping develop the PP2 post design, so hopefully that will play in the Mustangs favor. Having said that, Ford is usually never super aggressive with street car setups. Reason being, corporate attorneys and risk management teams.

I'm hoping they developed a PP2 that can at least hold its own on the track against the SS 1LE, although GM engineers seem to have found a sweet spot with that chassis that Ford cannot duplicate in the Mustang. We should know soon enough...

DarthMalice · Mar 12, 2018

My concern is how it sounds like the magneride did not sort out the loose handling of the 15-17. That is why I would consider it...but this review doesn’t sound that positive.

Norm Peterson · Mar 12, 2018

I'm betting that the calibration of the magneride matters at least as much as its mere presence. Kind of like the value of EFI depends on its tune.

You might want to look over on Dcsport's website for their aftermarket controller - there's a software manual available for download that shows at least some of what's going on "under the hood".

Norm

bootlegger · Mar 13, 2018

DarthMalice said:
My concern is how it sounds like the magneride did not sort out the loose handling of the 15-17. That is why I would consider it...but this review doesn’t sound that positive.

Magneride is a big improvement over the 2017 PP, and I wouldn't call the handling loose. One of the issues seems to be the springs, as they are softer than the GT350. The only loose part is the IRS system, which wasn't really changed for 2018. After looking under there and comparing with videos of the 2015-2017, it is easy to see all the same gaps exist. Luckily, the aftermarket has some cheap fixes for that.

BTW, the PP2 has the same exact springs and dampers as the Shelby.

Ace · Mar 13, 2018

16 GT MM/Auto said:
Well said. So ...

Camaro pulls the numbers by a few tenths against a non-similarly equipped Mustang

People like/choose Mustangs over Camaros regardless of how the latter performs

Got it.

MotorTrend is all about comparing performance on a professional level. Saying "But Mustang sells better in the end" is so out of place in this topic, since it makes every discussion about the cars themself pointless if all you care about is sales.

Of course you can argue that the 1LE is not a fair comparison, MT states that by themself multiple times. But you still can compare the measurements to the 16 2SS (see the article 16 2SS vs M4) and 15 GT (see 15 GT vs 14 SS 1LE), which shows that bone stock on manuals the Camaro is the better performing car, but the 18 clearly has slight improvements over 2015 model:

2016 SS MT:
0 - 60: 4.1s
Quarter Mile: 12.4s
Figure Eight: 24.1s
Track: 1:23:15

2015 GT PP1 MT:
0 - 60: 4.6s
Quarter Mile: 12.9s
Figure Eight: 24.4s
Track: 1:24:32

2018 GT PP1 MT:
0 - 60: 4.4s
Quarter Mile: 12.6s
Figure Eight: 24.0s
Track: 1:23:97
And this is no way to say "Haha, see how bad the 18 performs compared to the Camaro". These are all great numbers, both are awesome cars. But in the end Camaro has the performance advantage just like the Mustang has more daily driver values. Does it matter for a normal driver on the street or sales? No. But is it interesting to see and talk about? Yes.

millhouse · Mar 13, 2018

Ace said:
MotorTrend is all about comparing performance on a professional level. Saying "But Mustang sells better in the end" is so out of place in this topic, since it makes every discussion about the cars themself pointless if all you care about is sales.

Of course you can argue that the 1LE is not a fair comparison, MT states that by themself multiple times. But you still can compare the measurements to the 16 2SS (see the article 16 2SS vs M4) and 15 GT (see 15 GT vs 14 SS 1LE), which shows that bone stock on manuals the Camaro is the better performing car, but the 18 clearly has slight improvements over 2015 model:

2016 SS MT:
0 - 60: 4.1s
Quarter Mile: 12.4s
Figure Eight: 24.1s
Track: 1:23:15

2015 GT PP1 MT:
0 - 60: 4.6s
Quarter Mile: 12.9s
Figure Eight: 24.4s
Track: 1:24:32

2018 GT PP1 MT:
0 - 60: 4.4s
Quarter Mile: 12.6s
Figure Eight: 24.0s
Track: 1:23:97
And this is no way to say "Haha, see how bad the 18 performs compared to the Camaro". These are all great numbers, both are awesome cars. But in the end Camaro has the performance advantage just like the Mustang has more daily driver values. Does it matter for a normal driver on the street or sales? No. But is it interesting to see and talk about? Yes.

I'm sorry, why are you comparing 2016 SS 1/4 mile numbers against the 2018 GT when they ran head to head and ran identical 12.6 1/4 mile times?

Austinj427 · Mar 13, 2018

Ace said:
MotorTrend is all about comparing performance on a professional level. Saying "But Mustang sells better in the end" is so out of place in this topic, since it makes every discussion about the cars themself pointless if all you care about is sales.

Of course you can argue that the 1LE is not a fair comparison, MT states that by themself multiple times. But you still can compare the measurements to the 16 2SS (see the article 16 2SS vs M4) and 15 GT (see 15 GT vs 14 SS 1LE), which shows that bone stock on manuals the Camaro is the better performing car, but the 18 clearly has slight improvements over 2015 model:

2016 SS MT:
0 - 60: 4.1s
Quarter Mile: 12.4s
Figure Eight: 24.1s
Track: 1:23:15

2015 GT PP1 MT:
0 - 60: 4.6s
Quarter Mile: 12.9s
Figure Eight: 24.4s
Track: 1:24:32

2018 GT PP1 MT:
0 - 60: 4.4s
Quarter Mile: 12.6s
Figure Eight: 24.0s
Track: 1:23:97
And this is no way to say "Haha, see how bad the 18 performs compared to the Camaro". These are all great numbers, both are awesome cars. But in the end Camaro has the performance advantage just like the Mustang has more daily driver values. Does it matter for a normal driver on the street or sales? No. But is it interesting to see and talk about? Yes.

These need to be same driver, same day times if you want to compare.

The 15 GTPP and the 16SS (assuming it is from the same test) is a good comparison. Doing it 2 years apart though isn't.

Here is a good example. My best friend has a 16 1SS, he generally runs quicker than I do in most things but only by a few tenths at best. His best lap in his stock Camaro was 3 seconds slower than my best lap in my stock GTPP, at a power track. Major difference? It was probably 20-30 degrees colder the day I went.

I haven't driven an 18, but I'm fairly confident the PS4s and 30 extra horsepower is enough to put a serious hurting on the 15-17 S550s, assuming same day, same driver testing.

ChristianDev · Mar 21, 2018

The full episode is up for free now on motortrend.com

BradleyMac · Mar 22, 2018

Dragster said:
I honestly couldn't care less. The 1LE is a great performing package, and we've known that for a while now. The problem is that the rest of the car is garbage. The interior design sucks and the visibility is worse. Who thought it was a good idea to have the AC vents blasting on your right hand?!? Not that I care about trunk space and all that, but have you seen the pathetic trunk opening on the Camaro? You'd be hard pressed to put a laptop through the opening. It's honestly laughable. There's a reason why the Mustang is killing the Camaro in the sales department, despite being the lesser performing car--it's simply a better car in virtually every other aspect. Stuff like trunk access and visibility matters to a LOT of people.

I also prefer the way the Mustang drives. While I can't speak for the 18 (I have a 15), the gearing in the cars is night and day. The LT1 is a great engine and has a ton of torque, but that makes it boring to drive on the street, IMO. You can honestly drive the car in 3rd gear and never have to shift. I prefer to rev up through the gears and rev-match down shifts and all that. To me, it makes the car more fun and engaging to drive. Other people are after pure numbers, and that's okay too. They can buy the 1LE.

Having a slower car from the factory just means you get to have more fun modding the car anyway!

Ditto, yes the camaro has great performance (SS), but you pay for it in spades. And the car is pathetic to sit in, interior looks etc etc. I took my wife for a simple what appeals to you and she couldn't figure out why anyone one would even consider the Camaro given it's interior vrs the mustang. PS if you wish to put anything bigger than a postage stamp in the trunk of a Camaro lol good luck. If you like to take your car to the golf club forget it.

martinjlm · Mar 22, 2018

BradleyMac said:
Ditto, yes the camaro has great performance (SS), but you pay for it in spades. And the car is pathetic to sit in, interior looks etc etc. I took my wife for a simple what appeals to you and she couldn't figure out why anyone one would even consider the Camaro given it's interior vrs the mustang. PS if you wish to put anything bigger than a postage stamp in the trunk of a Camaro lol good luck. If you like to take your car to the golf club forget it.

Interior is a matter of personal taste. More people prefer the Mustang interior to the Camaro interior. I'm in the minority there. To me they are a coin flip. But, as far as what fits where....

I drive a Camaro Convertible. In good weather I golf twice a week, minimum. If the top is down (most of the time) clubs go in the back seat. If top is up, they go in the trunk. Not kidding, it works.

I'm also a bass player and play a lot of gigs. My small speaker cabinet and regular sized bass can fit in the trunk with the top up. With the top down I can fit whatever I want or need in the back seat.

Hell, I've shopped at Costco in the convertible. No doubt it doesn't hold as much as other vehicles in my household, but that's not why I bought it. I would not trade off the performance of the car for a few more cubic feet. I make what I have work.

jake_zx2 · Mar 22, 2018

^^That being said, now that there is no tradeoff in performance, how will that affect sales? Unless Chevy pulls some voodoo magic for 2019, I don't see their sales picking up at all

Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

Vernichtung

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16 GT MM/Auto

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16 GT MM/Auto

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Stage_3

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saleen367

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DarthMalice

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Norm Peterson

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Ace

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martinjlm

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