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Shelby GT500 Mustang Discussions of the 2019+ Shelby GT500 Mustang


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Old 09-28-2017, 10:31 PM   #901
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I'm going to write out my thoughts on why a 2 seater won't work for Ford or anyone else, right now.

The Viper died because of lack of sales because it was too expensive and it wasn't called a Corvette.

You can't argue the manual transmission, because how many SVT/FP cars are available with manual as the only option, and sell.

The new Viper had tons of tech, a nice interior, big 8.4 in touch screen and big 7 in LCD in the dash, all the track apps you could want and anywhere from 12-18 speaker system to get your groove on. Very livable and drive-able when compared to the cars from yesteryear. They tried and did great, and it still didn't sell until they decided to cancel the program.

Chevy could probably build that exact car (at that price even), slap a Corvette emblem on it and it would sell.

This is where the biggest problem occurs for other manufacturers. How do you sell a 2 seater to a market that captures not only purists, but retirees who want a sports car and guys going through a midlife crisis? What name does Ford have? The Thunderbird? Not enough name recognition for a lot of people, it would capture some of the older guys but you also want a competitive car for the younger guys, and that's not really an exciting name. I'm not sold on it. Ford GT? Well, that might work, but it would royally piss off the actual Ford GT owners. You could come up with something new, but then you are starting from scratch and that's a no-no in name recognition. Shelby Daytona coupe? That might work, it carries the Shelby name but Ford also tried this earlier in the 2000s and decided there wasn't enough market for it to sell, so they killed the program.

Lets go with Shelby Daytona Coupe. It's a name that gets a lot of Ford purists excited, even some of the older guys from the other camps and some younger guys because of the Shelby name.

Now you need a ton of R&D to make it compete with a car that has owned the segment for years and regularly fights with middle-upper class super cars. That's an enormous amount of money to build an entirely different chassis and power train options, and that translates directly to the cost of the car. You have to come in at, or below Corvette pricing, and convince your investors that they may not get their return for quite a few years while the name grows, or it may fail and it will be a huge loss (Viper).

Now, the last, and probably biggest problem is how many people are willing to buy a 2 seater. You could probably steal some sales from the Corvette crowd after a few years, and even some Mustang sales, but seeing how much people bicker about the cost of the 2018 cars, they might have a tough time swallowing a $50k-$90k price tag. So now you are sharing a market that buys roughly 40k-50k cars per year, and you are going to get bashed on sales for the first 5-10 of them as you push the car and market the hell out of it. That's probably why Ford isn't considering it anymore.

FWIW, I would love to be wrong. I really like cars.

TL;DR
I don't think anyone else is going to try to enter the 2 seater, American sport car market because of the Corvette.

PS: the mid engine thing that Chevy is building is supposedly going to be a Corvette (another trim level), they have been wanting to do a mid engined Corvette for a lot years and even spoke about it when the last C7Z came out. I bet it sells.

I totally agree, it's not that Ford can't build it, it's just very hard to sell the quantity of 2 seaters anywhere near the number of Corvettes, and you need those numbers to have the pricing corvette does. Otherwise your selling a 2 seater at 130K or more like they did with the viper. The heritage though is exactly why I could see them doing a crazy 85-100K TT mustang with far more lightweight components and tech. I am however very excited to see this upcoming mid engine corvette.
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:11 AM   #902
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Hmmmm... I just bought a two-seat mustang in 2016, and every one Iíve heard of have been sold or are sitting on a lot somewhere with a ridiculous ADM.

Thereís a way to sell a two-seat automobile... a Pantera retro with a FPC voodoo would sell every damn one out before the cars got to the dealerships, save for greedy dealers, if it were produced.
The thing about the two seat Mustang you bought is that it's a lot cheaper for Ford to produce than a 2 seater built on a completely different platform would be. I'm all for a new Pantera though. Maybe Ford can team up with someone who makes mid engine cars in order to keep costs down?
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:50 AM   #903
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An AC Cobra retro with a 7 litre would make the Corvette look silly.
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:10 AM   #904
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I, personally, would rather Ford have a $70k GT500 and a $100k Pantera based on a midengine 5.2 FPC Voodoo with PI/DI and a manual standard w/ auto option.
With the (probably) $100K Vette coming out, Ford really needs an attainable mid-engine car to compete with the Vette, especially once the GT goes away.

The cost of a new platform, or even using a base mustang platform (which probably isn't even possible) would be astronomical. Makes sense for GM to transition all Vettes to mid engine down the road, but Ford would have to create an all new platform/model which is a big Gamble and HUGE investment so I doubt that'll ever happen.
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:18 AM   #905
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How usable would the previous-gen GT platform be if Ford really did want to do a new mid-engine car? It wouldn't be quite as expensive as developing an all-new platform..
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Old 09-29-2017, 12:25 PM   #906
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So after seeing the most recent rendering and hearing the 5.0 S/C engine with over 800 HP I don't know that I am as excited for the 500 as I was (and still am) the 350. The only thing I can think of that would bring the 350 level of excitement is AWD. I know, I know, we have had this conversation already but I just don't know that 800+ HP now is enough. Maybe I am being a mustang snob about it. Why am I not as excited about a 800+ HP mustang as I was a Hellcat/Demon? the Camaro ZL1 1LT just doesn't do anything for me and I wouldn't buy one If I could get it for $40K.

My hope is that this 500 is AMAZING (800+ HP and AWD), so amazing, that I will go out and get one. If I am not capable of getting one I hope that current 350/R owners like it so much there will a number of used 350/R's out there to buy.
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Old 09-29-2017, 01:29 PM   #907
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So after seeing the most recent rendering and hearing the 5.0 S/C engine with over 800 HP I don't know that I am as excited for the 500 as I was (and still am) the 350. The only thing I can think of that would bring the 350 level of excitement is AWD.
Function is key over showy tire smoke, right? It's tough to make 800 hp on street tires functional in a front engine car without some method to enhance traction.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:00 PM   #908
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Function is key over showy tire smoke, right? It's tough to make 800 hp on street tires functional in a front engine car without some method to enhance traction.
I guess the market for a Hellcat type Mustang is there as bragging right wars will never go away. But Ford may have done it backwards and should have introduced the drag strip king first then come out with a track monster later.

I pray the ford makes me look silly and delivers us an amazing machine, and I HATE being wrong.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:16 PM   #909
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How usable would the previous-gen GT platform be if Ford really did want to do a new mid-engine car? It wouldn't be quite as expensive as developing an all-new platform..
Wasn't that its own custom (expensive) production line? I doubt it'll meet current crash test standards.
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:51 AM   #910
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As much as id like to see ford compete with GM and their mid engine, it aint happening. Fords mid engine shrinks its production numbers every generation. Next time there will be 50 made and even the executives will be pissed they couldnt get one. Haha.
The GM will sell well, i feel.
Meanwhile, you guys are right, we get a smoke show car for 75k
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Old 09-30-2017, 11:43 AM   #911
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The only show coming is the no show. You guys will be free to buy something else and won't have to complain about spending 75k on something you don't like or want!
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Old 09-30-2017, 04:19 PM   #912
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No AWD in the Mustang unless the front wheels are driven by electric motors.
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:41 PM   #913
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Red face

If Ford would just give us a Special Edition Mustang , the wait for the Ultra Stang 500 would be a lot easier.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:24 PM   #914
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There is a slim chance that a Hot V Turbo set up might make it into this Halo Stang....
Drawback is that a new set of heads must be made.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:39 PM   #915
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There is a slim chance that a Hot V Turbo set up might make it into this Halo Stang....
Drawback is that a new set of heads must be made.
That would be the Hotness if so! However, I am tiring of holding my breath! But the big auto shows are coming as is hopefully more real information!
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