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E85 Conversion

Reds197

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The stock pump will support 800 hp with a boost-a-pump sure. This is hard on the stock pump because it is a dead end system. I have seen 3 pumps die early when operating this way. A fuel system is much more reliable than a boost a pump.
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we are fores larges dealer for the mustang platform.

we can customize the packages however you want it with some nice discounts as well

hit me up and we'll get you dialed in with a system that fits your needs.

fore makes everything in house, the quality control is unparalleled

we have budget systems to full blown setups
Can you install ?
I am close by in Indy/
 

phunk

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The stock pump will support 800 hp with a boost-a-pump sure. This is hard on the stock pump because it is a dead end system. I have seen 3 pumps die early when operating this way. A fuel system is much more reliable than a boost a pump.
The fuel pump doesnt know if its a return or not return fuel system. The fuel pump outputs its maximum that it can provided its voltage and pressure against it, at all times. A return system will actually load the fuel pump more because by regulating pressure in the engine bay after sources of pressure drop and restriction, the pump will now be running at a higher pressure than the rails... where as a returnless system is regulated at the pump module and the rails will drop in pressure when the plumbing restrictions become too great for the flow. The pressure differential is going to occur at high flow, placement of the regulator determines how it occurs.

In short, returnless / dead end systems do not work the pump any harder. But a voltage booster does.

As for a fuel system and twin pumps being more reliable than a boost a pump... that is a double edged sword right there. With a twin fuel pump system, both in-tank pumps have check-valves in the output and the vehicle will run and run exactly the same with just a single pump activated.

What this means is that if you lose a pump (one dies), you will have no idea until youre running lean under full boost and damaging your engine.

With a boost a pump, at least if your only pump fails, the car just wont start.

There are pluses and minus to each fuel pump configuration, and they are individual from the pluses and minuses to return conversions. But in the end what matters is his A/F ratios. If they are staying consistent and safe (along with consistent fuel pressure curves), then there is no reason to try and talk him into a fuel system upgrade that will put him in the exact same place he already is.
 

Reds197

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Did you consider the stock pump looses 30% of its flow before it dies. I HAVE SEEN THIS! It is not a on or off switch. Car will start and run but is way short on fuel goes lean and bye bye engine. Way safer to have a two pumps running at lower voltage.

You also know the higher the PSI the lower the pump will flow. You can regulate lower fuel pressure and get more flow with less load on the pumps. If the regulator is boost referenced fuel pressure will rise with boost. On the stock pump its 58 psi no matter what.
 

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phunk

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Did you consider the stock pump looses 30% of its flow before it dies. I HAVE SEEN THIS! It is not a on or off switch. Car will start and run but is way short on fuel goes lean and bye bye engine. Way safer to have a two pumps running at lower voltage.
Yes a pump can go weak before it dies. It can happen any number of ways and my point really was that neither configuration is truly more dependable than the other, as they both have their weaknesses that could be detrimental.
 

Reds197

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You also know the higher the PSI the lower the pump will flow. You can regulate lower fuel pressure and get more flow with less load on the pumps. If the regulator is boost referenced fuel pressure will rise with boost. On the stock pump its 58 psi no matter what.

I would also rather have two pumps at 70% than one. Two pumps are safer.
 

mustang_guy

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it has an engine!
Pushing a fuel pump to the ragged edge with a BAP is highly risky. Using a BAP to push it a little is a lot less risky. I wont take those kinds of risks with my cars.
 

phunk

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You also know the higher the PSI the lower the pump will flow.
I am pretty sure everyone knows that lol

You can regulate lower fuel pressure and get more flow with less load on the pumps. If the regulator is boost referenced fuel pressure will rise with boost. On the stock pump its 58 psi no matter what.

I would also rather have two pumps at 70% than one. Two pumps are safer.
This is not exactly true... to get more flow you will need more pressure on the back side of the plumbing unless you also increase the size of the plumbing, which is a separate issues from the pumps themselves. It will stand true for single or twin pumps.

Yes a return system has a static differential pressure while a returnless has a full static pressure. This isnt generally a problem for cars running less than 15psi boost and using adequate sized injectors, as it would still allow for a 3 bar differential which is very common and actually how many injectors are rated anyway.

There is no such thing as twin pumps at 70%... when turned on, a pump is at 100%. Nothing else matters. You give that pump voltage, it is now at 100% whether your engine is using all that fuel or not. These pumps are 2 wire pumps with no speed controllers... you have on and off and that is it.
 

Reds197

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Yes a pump can go weak before it dies. It can happen any number of ways and my point really was that neither configuration is truly more dependable than the other, as they both have their weaknesses that could be detrimental.
You just said a pump can go weak before it dies!

Return fuel systems have much larger fuel lines.

You are already out of pump on 93? Wait until E85 you will be way short.
 

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phunk

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You just said a pump can go weak before it dies!

Return fuel systems have much larger fuel lines. LOL
Yes I did. Its right there in my post for all to see. Do you not agree anymore?

Return systems only have larger lines if you put in larger lines. These are separate issues.

A return system means that the regulator is in the engine bay and a return fuel line is added to the vehicle to return the fuel back to the tank.

A return-less system accomplishes its entire return fuel function within the fuel pump module.

Neither return or return-less dictate the size of the plumbing the vehicle has. You may choose to run with either small or large plumbing while still operating the system in either return or return-less configuration.

You are already out of pump on 93? Wait until E85 you will be way short.
oh... trust me i am not even 1% worried about it. I am not out of anything.
 

phunk

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Pushing a fuel pump to the ragged edge with a BAP is highly risky. Using a BAP to push it a little is a lot less risky. I wont take those kinds of risks with my cars.
Your fuel pump runs on the ragged edge at idle without a BAP. Pump on = ragged edge. Your fuel pump runs at one speed: everything its got. There is no throttle for it... voltage is the best you can do for that. If fuel pressure at the pump isnt dropping, than you are doing as good as you will do with any pump configuration.

A BAP isnt bad at all, especially when they are configured to only increase voltage under high load. I expect fuel pump lifespan to be effected almost negligibly under this condition.
 

Reds197

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Good thing you spoke with Lund! If you are not worried about I have never gone lean.

The return systems all come with Fuel Lines 8an or 10an. How can you use the stock lines if there is no return line. LOL.

(13:1 a/f at redline) Sure you are not worried. This is crazy lean!
 

phunk

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Good thing you spoke with Lund! If you are not worried about I have never gone lean.

The return systems all come with Fuel Lines 8an or 10an. How can you use the stock lines if there is no return line. LOL.

(13:1 a/f at redline) Sure you are not worried. This is crazy lean!

You can use the stock feed line by simply continuing to use the stock feed line. You see, the stock one came on the car and its already there and nothing actually has to be done to continue using it. So by literally doing nothing at all, you will be using the stock fuel feed delivery pipe. If you choose to add a regulator to the engine bay and a return line, the stock delivery pipe is literally still there in the car unless you remove it and replace it with something larger.

My car is lean because of tuning, not fuel pressure. I could put 17 fuel pumps in my car with an individual return system for each injector and it will run just as lean until it gets retuned.

I think you are mixing up issues here. Fuel pumps, return or return-less, and tuning, are 3 completely individual concerns... but you keep speaking about them as if they are all-in-one and automatically effect one another. Sure one can have side-effects on the others, but they are 3 standalone issues.
 

Reds197

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I know the tuning side. They all directly effect the other. Ask your tuner his thoughts.
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