ECU tunning does nothing for N/A engines? Dinan says so.

Coming from BMW's that was cool to watch. Interesting though that now BMW is headed towards all-turbo, he states there's no point chipping NA cars, when in the 90's Dinan was THE go-to for NA performance tunes.

Demonic said:

Coming from BMW's that was cool to watch. Interesting though that now BMW is headed towards all-turbo, he states there's no point chipping NA cars, when in the 90's Dinan was THE go-to for NA performance tunes.

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He said if you change hardware the ECU needs to be tunned, intake, headers etc.

There's always room for more. The ECU can absolutely be optimized for more power, even more so when in conjunction with other parts.

Some simple tune/bolt-on packages from FR for the GT.
https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9603-M8

Funny as Dinan sold for years (and continues to sell) tunes for BMW N/A engines. Now the claims on a tune alone are very modest (~10 bhp on 400+ bhp N/A M3) which are probably more realistic compared to what other tuners are claiming. Will an N/A tune help reduce track times? Probably not!

FogcitySF said:

Funny as Dinan sold for years (and continues to sell) tunes for BMW N/A engines. Now the claims on a tune alone are very modest (~10 bhp on 400+ bhp N/A M3) which are probably more realistic compared to what other tuners are claiming. Will an N/A tune help reduce track times? Probably not!

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The Dinan tunes the make real power are for FI. Even the FP tunes are modest and most require additional hardware. Dinana tunes for my audi's are also conservative compared to APR. Can you make more power from a tune? I think so. But N/A motor yields small gains. Upgrading hardware and tunning for said hardware, that's the ticket.

It's also important to remember that one of Dinan's benefits is that his work won't violate BMW factory warranties and is usually CARB-legal. So his tunes, for example, tend to re-map WOT but not part-throttle curves, so as not to introduce leaner mid-range running (more power but more risk of detonation if using lower-octane fuel) and emissions compliance.

Mark D'Sylva and Jim Conforti both made more power on tunes for NA BMW motors by re-mapping the full spectrum including part-throttle.

It's also true that manufacturers are now pushing closer to the limits of what their engines can do, so as a % improvement an aftermarket tune nets a lot less, as well as normal bolt-on mods as a lot of people are seeing. Even as far back as the E34 540i, aftermarket exhausts on the M60 V8 yielded virtually no improvement unless either deleting the cats or pairing a header and cat-back with a ton of other mods; the factory exhaust was very efficient.

Utterly false statement. Is there less left on the table with modern vehicles, yes, especially those already tuned for and with gas guzzler taxes. Fact is however just throwing emissions regs out the window can usually get you more power.

high compression engines even when NA might be able to hit a bit more timing running just rich enough to drop combustion temps. This of course could probably blow your smog test.

That is pretty ignorant thing to say from BMW. I guess they try to push turbo cars.
Of course ECU tuning for specific fuel type will greatly benefit all types of engines.

Dinan is like that Canadian winter coat brand that costs $1000+ (forgot what its called) or $5,000 bags some people buy, they charge an arm and a leg for something that is not worth it. Its all perception and only rich/ignorant (of reality) buy their products.

UnhandledException said:

Dinan is like that Canadian winter coat brand that costs $1000+ (forgot what its called) or $5,000 bags some people buy, they charge an arm and a leg for something that is not worth it. Its all perception and only rich/ignorant (of reality) buy their products.

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That's silly. Lots of people value retaining their warranty but still want to mod cars. E90 335i with Dinan tune, oil cooler, and charge pipe, stock exhaust, and good dampers on BFG R1s can run sub-1:42 at Mid-Ohio in the hands of a good driver. That is really damn fast for a family sedan. Can you go faster with a GIAC or Cobb or JB4 tune? Sure, yes, but they aren't that much cheaper and for people with newer cars, you lose the safety net of the warranty.

Just because one business takes a conservative approach and has a different value proposition doesn't make the customers idiots.

More fuel for the fire?

No.

A competent tuner can find safe, reliable power on most any engine controlled by an ECU. In some cases the gains me be small but that doesn't mean they aren't worth achieving if it is something you don't mind paying for.

I listened to this a few times. I think this a matter of perspective and not a matter of right or wrong because he said don't waste your money on blah blah blah, unless you have hardware and then the ECU needs to be recalibrated. Bare with me here.

He's got a point....to a point. Alex Flores recently said that he's talked to a ton of tuners about the new Coyote and they're not getting anything out of it. MAYBE 8 - 10 RWHP. That's why all of these guys have gone immediately to E85 and it clearly likes that. Ford optimized the new Coyote and left very little on the table and anything that was left was to give head room for emissions, driveability, durability etc etc.

It's no secret BMW puts more time and effort into ECU calibrating. So going back to the original though, from his perspective, that may be exactly on point.

oldbmwfan said:

That's silly. Lots of people value retaining their warranty but still want to mod cars. E90 335i with Dinan tune, oil cooler, and charge pipe, stock exhaust, and good dampers on BFG R1s can run sub-1:42 at Mid-Ohio in the hands of a good driver. That is really damn fast for a family sedan. Can you go faster with a GIAC or Cobb or JB4 tune? Sure, yes, but they aren't that much cheaper and for people with newer cars, you lose the safety net of the warranty.

Just because one business takes a conservative approach and has a different value proposition doesn't make the customers idiots.

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It does. First of all the warranty you speak of is only for 2 years and in practice becomes a nightmare to prove to Dinan that BMW denied the warranty because of them. You become a mediator between Dinan and BMW. Does it sort itself out eventually? Probably, is it a pleasant experience? No. I have 2 GM friends as well as countless SAs and CAs across the country in the BMW world. Every one of them shares the same view.

You can always get an aftermarket warranty for a lot less and provide more coverage for your car and revert your tune. First of all, dont tune your car to the point it might break the car. If you want a conservative tune like Dinan, JB4 will do the same. I have never heard someone’s car crapping out with JB4 and I come from the F10 S63tu world with 100+ hp piggy tunes. Its the people who add meth and BCM with over 700tq to wheels that have these issues and they are looking for trouble. Its not like Dinan provides crazy gains AND provides warranty.

This is like paying $300 for Apple care AND paying $100 for deductable when $999 phone breaks. Look at that! 40% to insure, and only for 2 years. Gotta love that business model. Imagine owning a $100,000 car and paying $20,000/year to insure it. Same logic, same idioticty. Its the people who “cant be bothered with” caring/learning about what they own and buy a “peace of mind”.

Any finance manager at a car dealer will tell you they make a KILLING on these maintenance/warranty/paint protection/lease return - aka PEACE OF MIND plans. Its the weak ones who become prey to predators. You buy what they are selling and waste your money and they walk home happy.

“You drive a $120,000 car, those wheels cost a fortune!”
“Buy this tire and wheel warranty and get a peace of mind, this is NYC/WashingtonDC/Atlanta - insert your favorite city here”
“Its only $3500”

Right....

The entire wheel/tire set of an M5 costs $4400. Yes, $4400. $800/wheel and $300/tire. They sell $3500 plan to cover for $4400. And idiots pay for them. Why? Because they cant be bothered with worrying and caring about what belongs to them. So they get a “peace of mind”.