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boardkat

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Another quick update.

Got the MMI Adjustable Rear Perches on, but had two issues:

1.) 6" springs were too long
- 2000# 6"/2.25ID springs put me 3/8" higher than desired ride height, even with the perch being wound as low as it could go.

41982426301_f59a6b6950_b.jpg


2.) 5" springs were too short
- 1600# 5"/2.25ID springs allowed me to get to desired ride height, but the perch was wound very close to the top of the adjustment range, introducing the very real possibility of upper/lower perch hangar interference. The picture below shows a safe ride height that would result in upper camber arm interference prior to the perch hangars hitting - which, unfortunately, was about 1/2" higher than I wanted to be.

40082505930_f3d3cf7d10_b.jpg


40082504380_4881a83b87_b.jpg


41846772002_6a1aaed883_b.jpg


After talking with Mike about possible interim solutions (given that there are no OTS 5.5"/2.25ID springs available anywhere), he sent me a set of 1500# 6" springs to try (less rate = lower ride height), as well as machining a few spacers to fit on the lower perch, would would give me an additional 3/8" of perch clearance (and enough adjustment to run a 5" spring at desired ride height).

41265023524_3b1cdc1b2c_b.jpg


Haven't had a chance to throw the 1600# 5" springs on with the spacers yet, but I can confirm that getting to desired ride height is possible on the 1500# 6" setup with a little bit of lowering still left.

All this said, I only had the 2000# 6" springs in hand for the NWR-SCCA Regional Pro Solo #1 @ Packwood, WA a few weeks back, so I did a quick alignment and ran 'em anyway.

41846772602_7749eb9ea0_b.jpg


28242515038_b1f8b45917_b.jpg


Initial assessment: 2000# rear springs with a higher than desired rear ride height is not the right setup for a bumpy asphalt surface! The car was a bit of a mess. No surprise there of course, but I'll definitely be throwing them back on the next chance I get to run on a flat concrete surface with warm ambient temperatures to see how they do. For now, I'm actually going to throw a wrench in my known-good setup and begin experimenting with softer springs than I've run in a long time: 600f/1500r. We'll see how the car does this weekend at my home region OR-SCCA events, also in Packwood.

Ahead of that, I've had a chance to install a few other parts I've been meaning to get onto the car. The driveshaft vibration that I'd previously muted has progressively re-emerged since last season. Confident that the driveshaft itself is balanced correctly (I made sure Dynotech did this when I sent it back to get rebuilt after getting damaged when my diff carrier bolts failed last year), in tandem with a known good rear diff assembly (completely fresh build with new parts over the winter), and having already equalized the driveshaft/pinion angles previously (requiring 0.375" of spacers under the transmission mount), I've methodically tried the following:

1.) Get the car up on jackstands and pull the jumper to put the car in dyno mode
2.) Rotate the driveshaft at the pinion flange until vibrations are minimzed
3.) Rotate the driveshaft at the transmission flange until vibrations are minimized even further

I thought I'd try sometime a little different this time. Rather than any rotating, I added a worm clamp to the driveshaft as far to the rear as I could, suspecting that the new pinion flange may be the culprit. I proceeded to try different positions until magically, the vibration present between 65-110 disappeared COMPLETELY.

41982424461_a4e2a75c80_b.jpg


I suspect that the lack of any rubber in my suspension, poly/delrin diff/motor mount/subframe bushings, an aluminum diff carriage and a 1pc driveshaft all contribute to magnifying this issue in my case, but it's somewhat gratifying to finally overcome it again!

Also had a chance to put the Steeda Clutch Spring Assist & Perch Kit on.

41081218975_198ec4c0e9_b.jpg


41936391892_5f6ffd2b91_b.jpg


One of the first mods I did back in 2015 was completely remove the stock assembly, given it's propensity to lock me out of high RPM shifts. However, I've always noticed a bit of play at the top of the pedal, and figured a little bit of extra insurance for my throwout bearing couldn't hurt! Happy to report that the installation was painless (< 1 minute, due to me having noting to remove), the fit and finish are excellent, and I no longer have any play from the weight of the pedal/gravity at the top. Wish all my problems were solved this easily! :)

I also finally got around to enlarging my strut tower holes. Ever since I switched from Vorshlag to JRZ camber plates - the Vorshlag design put the spring perches too low in tandem with the JRZ struts, reducing inboard space thereby increasing track and adapter requirements for wheel clearance, and requiring a stiffer front spring due to fender interference - I've been unable to adjust camber as easily as I used to, due to the location of the adjustment bolts. Fortunately, CAM has no restriction on making this sort of modification, so I took some measurements and had a friend waterjet me a steel template to use in tandem with a 3" hole saw:

42115844751_b8cfef93bd_b.jpg


Didn't take any pics while I was enlarging the hole, but hopefully you can see how it worked - unbolt and lower strut, place template below center hole, button back up and go to town with a hole saw located by the pilot hole with a drill bit.

End result:

28243030438_8be4579a21_b.jpg


Lots of room for socket activities!

40308759620_4fbe29e349_b.jpg


My wallet and daily driven PS4S will be thanking me profusely for not having to endure that -3.75 camber and 1/8 toe out life any longer, thus saving them from an early trip to the trash heap due to accelerated inner wear!

Final thing to note: I picked up a co-driver for the rest of the season. Jim Boller, who warmed tires earlier this year @ the Crows Landing National Tour, will be driving with me the rest of the national event schedule, including the CAM Invitational and Solo Nationals in September. We really went through the ringer with all the oiling issues the car was having last month, so I'm excited to get another chance for us to thrash on a more reliable car for the rest of the year.

That's all for now, I'll be sure to report back ahead of the Packwood National Tour and Pro Solo events with the results of testing and tuning!
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Crackerjack17

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Incredible. Enjoyed the read!!
 

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Another quick update.

Got the MMI Adjustable Rear Perches on, but had two issues:

1.) 6" springs were too long
- 2000# 6"/2.25ID springs put me 3/8" higher than desired ride height, even with the perch being wound as low as it could go.

41982426301_f59a6b6950_b.jpg


2.) 5" springs were too short
- 1600# 5"/2.25ID springs allowed me to get to desired ride height, but the perch was wound very close to the top of the adjustment range, introducing the very real possibility of upper/lower perch hangar interference. The picture below shows a safe ride height that would result in upper camber arm interference prior to the perch hangars hitting - which, unfortunately, was about 1/2" higher than I wanted to be.

40082505930_f3d3cf7d10_b.jpg


40082504380_4881a83b87_b.jpg


41846772002_6a1aaed883_b.jpg


After talking with Mike about possible interim solutions (given that there are no OTS 5.5"/2.25ID springs available anywhere), he sent me a set of 1500# 6" springs to try (less rate = lower ride height), as well as machining a few spacers to fit on the lower perch, would would give me an additional 3/8" of perch clearance (and enough adjustment to run a 5" spring at desired ride height).

41265023524_3b1cdc1b2c_b.jpg


Haven't had a chance to throw the 1600# 5" springs on with the spacers yet, but I can confirm that getting to desired ride height is possible on the 1500# 6" setup with a little bit of lowering still left.

All this said, I only had the 2000# 6" springs in hand for the NWR-SCCA Regional Pro Solo #1 @ Packwood, WA a few weeks back, so I did a quick alignment and ran 'em anyway.

41846772602_7749eb9ea0_b.jpg


28242515038_b1f8b45917_b.jpg


Initial assessment: 2000# rear springs with a higher than desired rear ride height is not the right setup for a bumpy asphalt surface! The car was a bit of a mess. No surprise there of course, but I'll definitely be throwing them back on the next chance I get to run on a flat concrete surface with warm ambient temperatures to see how they do. For now, I'm actually going to throw a wrench in my known-good setup and begin experimenting with softer springs than I've run in a long time: 600f/1500r. We'll see how the car does this weekend at my home region OR-SCCA events, also in Packwood.

Ahead of that, I've had a chance to install a few other parts I've been meaning to get onto the car. The driveshaft vibration that I'd previously muted has progressively re-emerged since last season. Confident that the driveshaft itself is balanced correctly (I made sure Dynotech did this when I sent it back to get rebuilt after getting damaged when my diff carrier bolts failed last year), in tandem with a known good rear diff assembly (completely fresh build with new parts over the winter), and having already equalized the driveshaft/pinion angles previously (requiring 0.375" of spacers under the transmission mount), I've methodically tried the following:

1.) Get the car up on jackstands and pull the jumper to put the car in dyno mode
2.) Rotate the driveshaft at the pinion flange until vibrations are minimzed
3.) Rotate the driveshaft at the transmission flange until vibrations are minimized even further

I thought I'd try sometime a little different this time. Rather than any rotating, I added a worm clamp to the driveshaft as far to the rear as I could, suspecting that the new pinion flange may be the culprit. I proceeded to try different positions until magically, the vibration present between 65-110 disappeared COMPLETELY.

41982424461_a4e2a75c80_b.jpg


I suspect that the lack of any rubber in my suspension, poly/delrin diff/motor mount/subframe bushings, an aluminum diff carriage and a 1pc driveshaft all contribute to magnifying this issue in my case, but it's somewhat gratifying to finally overcome it again!

Also had a chance to put the Steeda Clutch Spring Assist & Perch Kit on.

41081218975_198ec4c0e9_b.jpg


41936391892_5f6ffd2b91_b.jpg


One of the first mods I did back in 2015 was completely remove the stock assembly, given it's propensity to lock me out of high RPM shifts. However, I've always noticed a bit of play at the top of the pedal, and figured a little bit of extra insurance for my throwout bearing couldn't hurt! Happy to report that the installation was painless (< 1 minute, due to me having noting to remove), the fit and finish are excellent, and I no longer have any play from the weight of the pedal/gravity at the top. Wish all my problems were solved this easily! :)

I also finally got around to enlarging my strut tower holes. Ever since I switched from Vorshlag to JRZ camber plates - the Vorshlag design put the spring perches too low in tandem with the JRZ struts, reducing inboard space thereby increasing track and adapter requirements for wheel clearance, and requiring a stiffer front spring due to fender interference - I've been unable to adjust camber as easily as I used to, due to the location of the adjustment bolts. Fortunately, CAM has no restriction on making this sort of modification, so I took some measurements and had a friend waterjet me a steel template to use in tandem with a 3" hole saw:

42115844751_b8cfef93bd_b.jpg


Didn't take any pics while I was enlarging the hole, but hopefully you can see how it worked - unbolt and lower strut, place template below center hole, button back up and go to town with a hole saw located by the pilot hole with a drill bit.

End result:

28243030438_8be4579a21_b.jpg


Lots of room for socket activities!

40308759620_4fbe29e349_b.jpg


My wallet and daily driven PS4S will be thanking me profusely for not having to endure that -3.75 camber and 1/8 toe out life any longer, thus saving them from an early trip to the trash heap due to accelerated inner wear!

Final thing to note: I picked up a co-driver for the rest of the season. Jim Boller, who warmed tires earlier this year @ the Crows Landing National Tour, will be driving with me the rest of the national event schedule, including the CAM Invitational and Solo Nationals in September. We really went through the ringer with all the oiling issues the car was having last month, so I'm excited to get another chance for us to thrash on a more reliable car for the rest of the year.

That's all for now, I'll be sure to report back ahead of the Packwood National Tour and Pro Solo events with the results of testing and tuning!
Thanks for sharing!!
Steeda Tech
 

SteveW

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That was a good test yesterday of your PS4S vs my RE71Rs in cool & wet, then drying conditions.

Thanks also for showing me that rear spring perch setup. That's likely the next thing I'll do to my car. Any idea what the minimum ride height is with 6" 2.25 springs? I'm not as low as you but some of that could be my 19" wheels vs 18s on your car. Just wondering what I should plan for.
 
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boardkat

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That was a good test yesterday of your PS4S vs my RE71Rs in cool & wet, then drying conditions.
yeah it was! i'm glad we ran back-to-back near the beginning of the run group for a reasonable comparison - not like those cheaters paulson and otis at the opposite end :p

needless to say, color me impressed with the performance of the PS4S. i knew they were gonna be good in the cold and VERY wet (after running them many times in the TnT on saturday during/after the deluge), but i wasn't expecting to be on the same second as ryan when gravel dispersed and the dry line appeared on our last runs with heat quickly building in the tires.

speaking of which... here's some entertainment - especially after this:

42221852931_638d207834_b.jpg


[ame]

turned to this :)

[ame]

[ame]



apologies on the wind noise but this was my first event with the new hero 6 setup and didn't have everything optimized (external mic already on the way regardless). ditto on the solostorm overlay - accelerometer wasn't calibrated on the tablet before running, so ignore the g-stats.

fwiw (since i can't remember if you stuck around or for how long saturday afternoon), i jumped into james' stock '18 GT on RE-71R and threw him the keys to mine at the TnT towards the end (the lakes and rivers had mostly disappeared by then). we were both on the same 1/10th of a second in both cars, first in our own, then in each other's. but we both spent a lot less time making corrections and chasing the rear end in his car vs. mine :lol:

Thanks also for showing me that rear spring perch setup. That's likely the next thing I'll do to my car. Any idea what the minimum ride height is with 6" 2.25 springs? I'm not as low as you but some of that could be my 19" wheels vs 18s on your car. Just wondering what I should plan for.
yep, no complaints as we discussed - mike maier is really going the distance to get them reconfigured the way i figure some of us would like to run them.

on the 6"/2.25ID setup, i was up about 3/8" higher in the rear than i'd previously been running - but keep in mind, this was on 2000# springs. this past weekend on the 6"/2.25ID 1500# springs that mike let me borrow, i was able to get my desired height with a bit of room of adjustment still left had i wanted to go lower. so they may work just fine out of the box for ya, without needing the adapter plates for a 5" setup mike made that i showed ya.

in any case, i can't remember my floor-to-frame measurements, but off the top of my head on 335/18 rivals, i believe i was 27 5/16" from the floor to the top of the fender on the hub centerline. quick math says that would be an equivalent of ((26.2-25.9)/2*16) = 2.4/16" higher for you on your tires - if you wanted to go 2000#. which i doubt you do. so feel free to ignore this paragraph ;)
 
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I guess I'm too organized and impatient so I always manage to get my car into grid first and the poor wife, who is always nervous before first runs, ends up being first car out. She hates that and I kick myself for letting other competition get the better course later in the heat as things clean up and dry out.

Sunday I might have indulged in a little slideways fun on early runs because it was so slick and the course flowed so well in that direction. When I realized how far behind I was on time I decided to get more serious, lol.

I didn't stick around Saturday afternoon. I was frustrated with myself and how I drove earlier in the day (would be several tenths up on my previous run and give it all away with some mistake near the end). I realized I was just tired from the effort of breaking away from work stuff, getting the trailer hooked up and loaded, then scrambling to get to Packwood before dark on Friday to setup camp. Julie and I just hopped in the pickup and went exploring to see if we could get up that mountain and find the water tank that's way above town. Nice views from up there if it isn't in a cloud.

I'm happy though to be in the ballpark (on asphalt anyway) now that I've gotten my setup much better.
 

DickR

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How did the PS4S tread edges, etc. hold up to autocross abuse in the wet/dry/in between?
Realistically how did they compare to RE-71R's in the wet and/or dry?

I guess you are saying the Paulson's '18 is pretty good?:)
 
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boardkat

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I'm happy though to be in the ballpark (on asphalt anyway) now that I've gotten my setup much better.
hope you enjoyed the journey to the stiff(er) side ;)

How did the PS4S tread edges, etc. hold up to autocross abuse in the wet/dry/in between?
Realistically how did they compare to RE-71R's in the wet and/or dry?
don't have any pics handy, but edge wear observation was very promising, especially at the pressures (32f/28r) that i was running in both wet and dry conditions.
i'd say the PS4S is a better choice in deep/medium water, and an equivalent choice in drying/cold conditions. in the pics i'm going to attach below, i barely hydroplaned through a LAKE. and only for a couple tenths of a second, and only the front tires (probably due to the amount of camber i've got dialed in, combined with stiff springs) - the rear stayed planted. in the warm/drying, RE-71R probably a better choice, but only slightly outside the noise.

I guess you are saying the Paulson's '18 is pretty good?:)
.. or that a car well on its way down the CAM rabbithole has significant disadvantages in the wet :p

on that note, this is what we were dealing with from the outside looking in:

42282365522_847d7109c3_h.jpg


41607259114_a8e3dba5c9_h.jpg


41607256944_fb1a669601_h.jpg



amazing, isn't it? gotta love the PNW! :D
 
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Interesting build, subscribed! :-)
 

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Wolverine

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width.
my 335/30R18 on 13s are almost 2"/corner wider than 305/30R19 RE-71R on 12s. also, the RE-71R is not a good match for my driving style.
gearing is a non-issue for me - with the 335/MT82/3.31/8250 combo, i go to 78 in 2nd.
Boardkat - What do you mean by the RE71Rs not being a good match for your driving style? I realize they’re not as wide, but what do the BFG’s offer that the Bridgestones do not (compound/tread/wear?) ?
 
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boardkat

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Boardkat - What do you mean by the RE71Rs not being a good match for your driving style? I realize they’re not as wide, but what do the BFG’s offer that the Bridgestones do not (compound/tread/wear?) ?
Tangibles: BFGs like a lot of slip angle and are more tolerant of heat than the Bridgestones. Historically, I've driven my car from the rear, and with my primary goal being performance on big sites like Crows Landing and Lincoln, I need a tire that can tolerate a lot of heat generated through slip during a run without falling off beyond the point of no return.

Intangibles: BFG contingency is much better than Bridgestone (product > cash in this case).

However, BFGs have several large cons that have been hurting me this season more so than in past years due to conditions. While they are very tolerant of heat, they also need a higher ambient temp out of the box to work. Anything less than 70deg in my experience, and grip is sub-optimal until well past my 3rd run as a single driver. They're also less tolerant of the OPR (mostly tar/seam sealer) in Lincoln on hot days. They are also horrendous in the wet, and spending the majority of my season in the PNW - well, you do the math :)

All this said, I am finally giving in after (3) seasons and have ordered a set of 19x12 wheels to mount a set of RE71Rs to and find out first hand if I can make them work better than the BFG. I'll have my work cut out making smaller inputs earlier and not relying as much on lift-throttle oversteer, but I've changed my driving style before to better suit an (ultimately faster but more finicky) wheel/tire setup. If the experiment fails, I just picked up a better cold/wet tire than my PS4S. Win-win, excluding my pocketbook :lol:

It all feels like a little deja-vu to me though - I've been through this rodeo before, back when the Toyo R1R and Hankook RS3 were on top of the heap (6) years ago. I actually found a mix of compounds to be the best setup then - R1R up front for precision/turn-in (very RE71R-like) and RS3 in the back for slip/heat tolerance (very Rival S-like). Without a doubt, I'll be testing that sort of thing this time around.

Stay tuned, I should have my new wheel/tire setup in time for testing next month in Packwood! :D
 
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SteveW

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Oh man, I saw your neighborhood going flying right past mine with that last post, haha.

Edit: it also seems like Stones have an edge on Thursdays and Fridays.
 

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now if only nexen would offer the sur4g in CAM sizes... then you'd have an even more confusing decision, haha
 
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boardkat

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Oh man, I saw your neighborhood going flying right past mine with that last post, haha.
It appears that I'm as stubborn about my tires as you are about your spring rates :p
2018: the year we both backed down :lol:

Edit: it also seems like Stones have an edge on Thursdays and Fridays.
.. unless the heavens unleash and you're stuck on the wear bars :doh:

now if only nexen would offer the sur4g in CAM sizes... then you'd have an even more confusing decision, haha
I really wish they did - Heitkotter (Nexen-sponsored) had to reluctantly turn down my seat this year since we both knew a 275 wasn't fitting on 12s or 13s :lol:
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