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ttime500

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You know what though Jim,........this car will hit 100K with the ADM and possibly more! Look at brand new GT350R cars, they are 100K and more. :crazy:
I'm hoping to get one, but we shall see.
I'm guessing this car to cost about 75-80K. (Before ADM, of course.) Any others agree or disagree?
I'm thinking very similarly, like 72-76k. Which is kinda why I ask why not go balls to the wall TT and charge 85-95k if that's what it takes. It'd be so different and unique from the US guys that I don't think it would have a problem selling. Also like you said it'll probably end up being 85-90 or so after ADM. The higher that msrp goes typically the less adm, unless it's a low production thing.
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Ponyboy4

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Disagree, i think it could do well. In fact, im not the only one who thinks so, so does GM. They are going to build a seperate mid engine car, indepedent of the corvette. If it fails, then maybe ill believe it couldnt work for ford.
I feel like Ford could do some amazing things if they decided to develop a new sports car independent of the Mustang and in the $60-$100k+ range, depending on options of course.
And heck they have a lot of engine/transmission options currently so there would be no need for new powertrain development. Something built lighter and lower with an updated VooDoo and DCT would be VERY interesting.
 

gearhead2685

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Gm sells more corvettes in 1 month than vipers dodge has sold in the past 3 years. That is a good reason for its demise, and a better reason not to compete in that market.
People can argue with this all they want but FCAs choice to Hellcatallthethings!!! killed the Viper period.
 

D3adch1ld

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So you met a guy one time and he is divulging info like this and violating all of the non-disclosures he has signed and risking his career just to tell Joe Blow some info? That's crazy. I've known a guy who is a family friend for years and he barely gives me any details for fear of losing his job.
Lmao, Joe Blow.
 

machsmith

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You know what though Jim,........this car will hit 100K with the ADM and possibly more! Look at brand new GT350R cars, they are 100K and more. :crazy:
I'm hoping to get one, but we shall see.
I'm guessing this car to cost about 75-80K. (Before ADM, of course.) Any others agree or disagree?
It wont Tony. The reason the 350R is selling so well is because it offeres something you cant find in anything but higher dollar farraris. The gt500 wont have anyrhing that makes people
From all brands say "i gotta have one". Maybe the dct will bring in some buyers. Sure there will be the dealers that want an arm and a leg and especially in the early going but it wont lask like this 350 did. Look at the last GT500. Some dealers asked adm but for the most part it was msrp or less. The last GT500 was even the highest powered muscle to date until the hellcat came and it still didnt command adm.

Gm sells more corvettes in 1 month than vipers dodge has sold in the past 3 years. That is a good reason for its demise, and a better reason not to compete in that market.
Disagree, i think it could do well. In fact, im not the only one who thinks so, so does GM. They are going to build a seperate mid engine car, indepedent of the corvette. If it fails, then maybe ill believe it couldnt work for ford.
 

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Big Boss

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People can argue with this all they want but FCAs choice to Hellcatallthethings!!! killed the Viper period.
I thought the Viper died because it was not going to be able to meet new safety regulations? But I also agree the choice to Hellcat everything didnt help the cause
 

1320'

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It wont Tony. The reason the 350R is selling so well is because it offeres something you cant find in anything but higher dollar farraris. The gt500 wont have anyrhing that makes people
From all brands say "i gotta have one". Maybe the dct will bring in some buyers. Sure there will be the dealers that want an arm and a leg and especially in the early going but it wont lask like this 350 did. Look at the last GT500. Some dealers asked adm but for the most part it was msrp or less. The last GT500 was even the highest powered muscle to date until the hellcat came and it still didnt command adm.



Disagree, i think it could do well. In fact, im not the only one who thinks so, so does GM. They are going to build a seperate mid engine car, indepedent of the corvette. If it fails, then maybe ill believe it couldnt work for ford.
I think the question of ADM is one of location too..

Seems like most of the dealers in the PNW did indeed put ADM's on "specialty cars"..IE the GT500, B302, GT350, Bullitt, etc..

Hell my local Chevy dealers put ADM's on every.single.Camaro...2t, V6, SS, ZL1..doesn't matter.
 

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It wont Tony. The reason the 350R is selling so well is because it offeres something you cant find in anything but higher dollar farraris. The gt500 wont have anyrhing that makes people
From all brands say "i gotta have one". Maybe the dct will bring in some buyers. Sure there will be the dealers that want an arm and a leg and especially in the early going but it wont lask like this 350 did. Look at the last GT500. Some dealers asked adm but for the most part it was msrp or less. The last GT500 was even the highest powered muscle to date until the hellcat came and it still didnt command adm.
I hope you are 100% correct Jim. That would be great for us car buyers! :thumbsup:
 

machsmith

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I thought the Viper died because it was not going to be able to meet new safety regulations? But I also agree the choice to Hellcat everything didnt help the cause
Thats what i seen too.

I think the question of ADM is one of location too..

Seems like most of the dealers in the PNW did indeed put ADM's on "specialty cars"..IE the GT500, B302, GT350, Bullitt, etc..

Hell my local Chevy dealers put ADM's on every.single.Camaro...2t, V6, SS, ZL1..doesn't matter.
Yeah, probably no way around every dealer charging adm in the area. Will need to call out of state and maybe work with a dealer that will take drop shipping. Basically just need to pay the receiving dealer the time to go thru the new vehicle prep. Usually 3-500.

I, personally, would rather Ford have a $70k GT500 and a $100k Pantera based on a midengine 5.2 FPC Voodoo with PI/DI and a manual standard w/ auto option.
That would be epic IMO. A mid engine voodoo..
Gm is going to be offering an NA mid engine supposedly. I've heard 3 engine choices.

I hope you are 100% correct Jim. That would be great for us car buyers! :thumbsup:
It'll be tough at first but by the second year should be doable. Depends on how many they make, or how many each dealer get allotted.. if its like the 350. At least one per dealer that enrolls, even the tiny dealers will be able to get one. Medium dealers maybe get 2 or 3 and large dealers 4 or more. If we dont get nuked, shoot there will be 5 to 8000 of these made a year.
 

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Hack

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I, personally, would rather Ford have a $70k GT500 and a $100k Pantera based on a midengine 5.2 FPC Voodoo with PI/DI and a manual standard w/ auto option.
If Ford did something with Italian styling like the Pantera with a mid-engine FPC V8 I would have to buy that. I don't know how I could afford it, but I would find a way.
 

BmacIL

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I, personally, would rather Ford have a $70k GT500 and a $100k Pantera based on a midengine 5.2 FPC Voodoo with PI/DI and a manual standard w/ auto option.
You could always buy a Pantera and swap in a Voodoo :cool:. That would be an absolute riot.
 

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BmacIL, do you have any info on why Ford doesn't continue use of the voodoo? I remember there was talk that production of the engine would end in 2020.
 

Twin Turbo

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BmacIL, do you have any info on why Ford doesn't continue use of the voodoo? I remember there was talk that production of the engine would end in 2020.
I'll let BmacIL reply for himself......but don't forget Ford Performance said from the outset Voodoo would only ever been seen in the GT350 from the factory.

Of course, there are variations, such as the 5.2 Aluminator with the CPC.....but that isn't specifically a Voodoo engine.
 

Austinj427

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The viper lagged in sale due to the philosophy behind it. Unlike the Corvette, the Viper was analog. It had no automatic trans option, launch control, or any of the technology we have come to expect from today's super sport cars. The Viper had a reputation of being brutal and unforgiving, a sports car only for purists and enthusiasts. Compare that to the Corvette which is an easier to live with and "cool" sports car, a sports car you don't have to be an enthusiast or experienced driver to appreciate.

The viper would sell if Dodge brings it back as a sensible easy-to-live-with 21st century sports car, and design it to appeal to a broader audience - not just folks longing for that early 90s sports car experience.
I'm going to write out my thoughts on why a 2 seater won't work for Ford or anyone else, right now.

The Viper died because of lack of sales because it was too expensive and it wasn't called a Corvette.

You can't argue the manual transmission, because how many SVT/FP cars are available with manual as the only option, and sell.

The new Viper had tons of tech, a nice interior, big 8.4 in touch screen and big 7 in LCD in the dash, all the track apps you could want and anywhere from 12-18 speaker system to get your groove on. Very livable and drive-able when compared to the cars from yesteryear. They tried and did great, and it still didn't sell until they decided to cancel the program.

Chevy could probably build that exact car (at that price even), slap a Corvette emblem on it and it would sell.

This is where the biggest problem occurs for other manufacturers. How do you sell a 2 seater to a market that captures not only purists, but retirees who want a sports car and guys going through a midlife crisis? What name does Ford have? The Thunderbird? Not enough name recognition for a lot of people, it would capture some of the older guys but you also want a competitive car for the younger guys, and that's not really an exciting name. I'm not sold on it. Ford GT? Well, that might work, but it would royally piss off the actual Ford GT owners. You could come up with something new, but then you are starting from scratch and that's a no-no in name recognition. Shelby Daytona coupe? That might work, it carries the Shelby name but Ford also tried this earlier in the 2000s and decided there wasn't enough market for it to sell, so they killed the program.

Lets go with Shelby Daytona Coupe. It's a name that gets a lot of Ford purists excited, even some of the older guys from the other camps and some younger guys because of the Shelby name.

Now you need a ton of R&D to make it compete with a car that has owned the segment for years and regularly fights with middle-upper class super cars. That's an enormous amount of money to build an entirely different chassis and power train options, and that translates directly to the cost of the car. You have to come in at, or below Corvette pricing, and convince your investors that they may not get their return for quite a few years while the name grows, or it may fail and it will be a huge loss (Viper).

Now, the last, and probably biggest problem is how many people are willing to buy a 2 seater. You could probably steal some sales from the Corvette crowd after a few years, and even some Mustang sales, but seeing how much people bicker about the cost of the 2018 cars, they might have a tough time swallowing a $50k-$90k price tag. So now you are sharing a market that buys roughly 40k-50k cars per year, and you are going to get bashed on sales for the first 5-10 of them as you push the car and market the hell out of it. That's probably why Ford isn't considering it anymore.

FWIW, I would love to be wrong. I really like cars.

TL;DR
I don't think anyone else is going to try to enter the 2 seater, American sport car market because of the Corvette.

PS: the mid engine thing that Chevy is building is supposedly going to be a Corvette (another trim level), they have been wanting to do a mid engined Corvette for a lot years and even spoke about it when the last C7Z came out. I bet it sells.
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