Wheel hop - 6A vs Manual

Hey Kelly,

Just did the CB005 and was wondering how bad the NVH levels were with the BK081 setup? This is my DD but I hit the 1/8 mile up weekly for fun and pound on it on the street regularly. Im about to pick up some Bias Plys for track use but notice that wheel hop is still around on street tires.

Matt

Thanks Kelly, for the detailed response. Do you find that the A6 or the new A10 cars have less issue with wheel hop? Seems to me that it would be easier to avoid the problem with an automatic.

The CB005 kit and vertical links did help me on the street with my 6MT 2016 GT. I still get tons of wheelspin on the 1-2 shift but no hop. At the track, it was a different story - severe hop. I was lifting off the throttle a bit on the shift but shifting very quickly at around 7200 RPM and having it floored upon clutch release in 2nd. I can't really blame track prep. Everyone else was saying how great it was. To add insult to injury, there was a bone stock S197 there with a 6A running 12.7s on stock 235 tires. He had no traction issues at all. I realize the S197 is a solid axle car so not comparable to S550.

Again, I am seriously considering trading my 6MT for one with an automatic. I am fine with some suspension mods but have no desire to completely rebuild the suspension or add much NVH.

brucelinc said:

Thanks Kelly, for the detailed response. Do you find that the A6 or the new A10 cars have less issue with wheel hop? Seems to me that it would be easier to avoid the problem with an automatic.

The CB005 kit and vertical links did help me on the street with my 6MT 2016 GT. I still get tons of wheelspin on the 1-2 shift but no hop. At the track, it was a different story - severe hop. I was lifting off the throttle a bit on the shift but shifting very quickly at around 7200 RPM and having it floored upon clutch release in 2nd. I can't really blame track prep. Everyone else was saying how great it was. To add insult to injury, there was a bone stock S197 there with a 6A running 12.7s on stock 235 tires. He had no traction issues at all. I realize the S197 is a solid axle car so not comparable to S550.

Again, I am seriously considering trading my 6MT for one with an automatic. I am fine with some suspension mods but have no desire to completely rebuild the suspension or add much NVH.

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Auto's are always going to be more consistent and faster for drag racing. The torque converter allows up to a 2:1 slip before stall. The slip is also somewhat linear, acting like a CVT until it hits a certain RPM and your hydraulic turbines reach 90% in the converter. Auto all the way for drag racing (well unless your top fuel, they just run a single gear and slip the clutch until it fuses together into a single piece, fastest way to run the 1/4 mile...but not exactly practical).

Manuals are typically still faster on a road course unless your comparing a Dual Clutch Auto in something like an Audi, which is the best of both worlds, but far more expensive to manufacture. You can buy two GT PP's for the price of a single RS3! Imagine how fast you could make a GT with $30k....

Why not have a shop do the parts install? You'd pay for about 3-4 hours labor + parts. Cradle lock out is only $210, differential bushings are what? $75~$100 (depending on weather you got FP, Steeda or BMR), toe link bearings from FP are $85 and a set of springs from BMR is another $210~$230. You could even throw in the control arm spherical bushings for another $150.

So your looking at what? $600~$700 worth of parts to largely address the issues and $300~$450 in labor. At worst case your just barely over $1,000. I'd imagine you'd take a much bigger loss trading in the GT 6M for a used GT A6, and an even bigger loss for a 2018+ GT 10A.

If your going to do that however, why not go straight to a 2018 A10 GT Drag Package, currently it's the king of the drag strip between the Charger, Camaro and Mustang (non-super charged variants) as far as bone stock goes.

Otherwise your better off working your IRS over a bit with you 6M. Drag racing a Manual is not really it's forte, Auto X and Track are where the 6M's shine and why I went with a manual over an auto (that and to me it's more fun). But if your determined to drag a 6M, take a good hard look at Project Midnight in the projects section and see what can be done with a 6M PP car with just DR's, IRS work over and a mild PP2 tune that's worth only 21 peak HP (maybe 2/10th's at best for the tune by itself). Braski did a great job at changing only what really needed to be changed: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23495

He ran an 11.86 with very little added power (in fact the Gen 2 coyote with a PP2 makes less total power over it's rev range than the new Gen 3 Coyote). So it's about a 12.05 to 12.15 car without the tune having just suspension and tires. Like I've said all along, the 5.0 makes the same total power from 2000 RPM to 7,000 RPM as the LS 6.2 in the Camaro SS does from 2,000 RPM to 6,500 RPM. Peak power doesn't matter, it's area under the curve that matters and how effectively you can get it to the ground. You can pack it all together in a shorter RPM range, or stretch it out over a longer RPM range. Braski wasn't even using drag springs, just the SP080 street lowering springs I have in mine. Very good combination with stock PP struts that's versatile enough for some drag racing, street use and Auto X or light track.

The first generation S550 IRS and suspension tuning is just not set up for drag racing or any real performance driving. It's set up more as a street car than a track car, and I'm talking PP GT's. The base suspension is set up for it's name sake, Grand Touring, it's not even a street performance setup.

It's far too soft and wallowly for any real performance driving, period. The base GT suspension is a far cry from the 1SS (base) suspension. And I'd say if you fix the IRS only, PP shock and springs are pretty close to 1SS, but can't match the 2SS with Magnaride in they dynamic abilities.

brucelinc said:

Thanks Kelly, for the detailed response. Do you find that the A6 or the new A10 cars have less issue with wheel hop? Seems to me that it would be easier to avoid the problem with an automatic.

The CB005 kit and vertical links did help me on the street with my 6MT 2016 GT. I still get tons of wheelspin on the 1-2 shift but no hop. At the track, it was a different story - severe hop. I was lifting off the throttle a bit on the shift but shifting very quickly at around 7200 RPM and having it floored upon clutch release in 2nd. I can't really blame track prep. Everyone else was saying how great it was. To add insult to injury, there was a bone stock S197 there with a 6A running 12.7s on stock 235 tires. He had no traction issues at all. I realize the S197 is a solid axle car so not comparable to S550.

Again, I am seriously considering trading my 6MT for one with an automatic. I am fine with some suspension mods but have no desire to completely rebuild the suspension or add much NVH.

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Absolutely, positively, 100% the A6 cars are less prone to wheel hop. When they do hop, the hop is MUCH less severe.

CB005 and Vertical Links work great for streetcars - and this is why I would confidently state that the CB005 is one of, if not the, most popular IRS modifications for the S550 Mustang.

In your case with street good, track not (for wheel-hop) I am not too surprised. With the mods you do have, on a sticky track surface it only makes the RLCA bearings more crucial (BK081). My testing on my 2015 GT showed wheel hop on the track, but zero on the street - with all IRS mods except the RLCA bearings. That is why I stressed them so much on my post above.

I would say a trade for an auto is not a terrible idea, but the $159.95 BK081 may be a solid effort first. Also keep in mind, you also have the ability to use a tire for the track, and also get shocks.

Check this video out. This is a 1.5X sixty foot, launching at 5700RPM with only CB005, Vertical links and the mods in the video. Hard to really argue the results of that combo. Simple, quiet and effective.

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Anyone try a 2nd gear launch?

2nd gear in a 6M GT with MT-82 is 2.430. 1st gear in a 6M SS with TR6060 is 2.660...dang that's close. Both cars have a 3.73 final drive and 27" tires stock...most guys on the SS forum don't seem to have wheel hop issues at the strip or street except in rain with the stock suspension. Gearing certainly plays some part in that.

SS guys launch between 4k and 5k typically on street tires with the SS 6M's. Yes 2nd is a hair taller in the GT 6M than 1st in the SS 6M, but not by much, compensate by a higher RPM. Sure, 60 foot times will be a lot slower, but the SS's 60 foot times aren't really good at all, typically they run 1.8 to 2.0 but still run a mid to low 12 second quarter miles.

Gearing, traction and power determines your 60 foot times, so it doesn't really tell us much unless we know the other factors, unless my thinking is incorrect on this.

Sure, with lots of traction, use 1st, but on street tires...traction is scarce, taller gearing might allow much more effective application of it and lower chance of breaking it. I can easily break traction launch in 2nd on the street on street tires at 3~3.5k RPM, so maybe it would best faster over all. This is just a theory, but might be worthy trying. Some Auto X guys launch in 2nd to avoid 1-2 shift as it's just faster, period.

No. You do not want to launch in 2nd gear.

Not only will the car be SLOW - but it is very very very hard on parts.

Thanks all for the good discussion. I am taking delivery of an oxford white 2018 A10 next week. 401A, active exhaust, black accent package, Smart & Safe package and 3.55 gear.

I am removing the cradle lockout kit and vertical links from my 2016. I will try the 2018 completely stock first but put the suspension pieces on it if needed.

The manual was tons of fun on the street but I am looking forward to the A10.

good call in the 18.. its pricey but if you like drag racing its going to make your life fun instead of frustrating!

growler said:

good call in the 18.. its pricey but if you like drag racing its going to make your life fun instead of frustrating!

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Thanks. It should be a pretty nice daily driver and hopefully fun for the occasional drag strip visits. There are some good deals now on 2018s. They start building 2019s in June. My 2016 appraised higher tham I expected, too. It is Mustang season.