"Venom Kills Demons" - Jim Owens (Ford Performance Marketing Manager)

J_Maher_AMG said:

Oh you’re right there no doubt. Thing is that run was under near perfect conditions, and who knows how many attempts it took. But, it’s certified as having done that time. Our cars can do a low 12 1/4, but a lot of drivers can’t even manage that, doesn’t make our cars any less capable! My point being the Demon still achieved that record breaking time, and is far more significant to the drag racing world than the new 500 will ever be in terms of top tier track cars.

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Actually the 2018s are high 11 sec cars in good conditions.
But your average driver in average conditions isn't hitting that ATM.

and the GT500? We will see when it is fully unveiled what it's bragging rights are.

The Demon is awesome. I don't care where anyone's loyalties lie. The fact that Mopar went out and did this - even if you have to swap out parts of your car to get the full potential - that's awesome that you CAN if so inclined.

That said, the GT500 is (will be known as) a true turnkey solution superior to the Demon as you drive them off the lot. There may be more to it than even that. But patience is required.

GT500TT said:

"The Hellcat, and Demon by extension, appeal to the classic American muscle car experience. A street bruiser that is a pure American thrill ride in the 1/4 mile"

Is that why they just released a wide body option with wider performance tires all the way around? How does that help in be faster in the 1/4 mile? They are trying to make the Hellcat handle it just aint happening!

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To be fair, they are 315 section drag radials. Also, the crate that you get with the car comes with front skinnies to run. It's a pretty cool thing, outside of the bone head move of not offering an optional roll cage so you can run at NHRA sanctioned tracks. :headbonk:

Was referring to the 305s on the standard wide body Hellcat. They make no pretense that the Demon handles!! Saw where one of the first things Hulk Hogan was doing to his Demon was looking for tires to replace the slicks so he didn't die if it rained while he was driving it on the street. His words not mine!

So, I can see it now. Your out in your Demon and a fast car pulls up next to you. Revs his/her(PC) engine. Demon guy/gal rolls down window. Says hold on, I got to run to the house swap tires to my drag slicks, pop in my "tune", put in some race gas, take out my passenger seat n back seat, come back and do a burn out, take you down. Be right back. Dang it sprinkled rain while I was gone. Ill have to take a rain check on the race. LOL!

I have had numerous conversations with Jim over the last number of years regarding many different Mustang models and he just a great guy but with all due respect I have no idea why Jim or the Ford Motor Company would target the Dodge Demon as a direct competitor?

These two cars should not even be mentioned in the same conversation in my opinion.

The Dodge Demon is nothing more than a one trick Pony Car that is very fast in a straight line but its styling is so boring, ugly and old, very poor at best when it comes to handling/braking/steering and with a purchase price that closes in on $100,000 fully loaded.

If Ford is targeting the Dodge Demon as a direct competitor for the upcoming 2019 GT500 what an absolute disappointment and embarrassment from a long standing Mustang enthusiast!

Don't worry.

BmacIL said:

To be fair, they are 315 section drag radials. Also, the crate that you get with the car comes with front skinnies to run. It's a pretty cool thing, outside of the bone head move of not offering an optional roll cage so you can run at NHRA sanctioned tracks. :headbonk:

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Bmac they really don’t need to offer the rollcage, 1 in maybe ever 1000 demon runs will get into the 9’s!! I agree with you, building an all around great car is much hard then focusing on one thing, and that’s what attracted me to the Z06 and now attracts me to the 500.

ttime500 said:

Bmac they really don’t need to offer the rollcage, 1 in maybe ever 1000 demon runs will get into the 9’s!! I agree with you, building an all around great car is much hard then focusing on one thing, and that’s what attracted me to the Z06 and now attracts me to the 500.

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Yeah but they know that the car is capable, therefore will require it. Really shortsighted.

BmacIL said:

Yeah but they know that the car is capable, therefore will require it. Really shortsighted.

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That's true, they probably knew enough to know they should at least make it optional. How capable do you think the 500 will be on the track on SC2's? mid 10's??

J_Maher_AMG said:

Only thing I’d point out is they certainly aren’t going for “bigger things”... or are they forgetting the Demon set the fastest 1/4 time in the world? In the WORLD. Will the GT500 have the fastest track times in the world? Not a chance by a Looooong shot. So while it may be more enthusiast minded and a more enjoyable driving car, certainly not “bigger” in terms of importance to the car world or significance. Give credit where it’s due!

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The demon has gotten plenty of credit. From me personally, from this forum at large, and from the enthusiast community.

Now I may be wrong, but all appearances seem to indicate that some on this forum don't want the GT500 to get it's due. Consistently poo-pooing the car and it's not even a publicly known quantity yet.

The demon is cool for what it's supposed to be. It's a straight line racer when set up with the crate installe by the owner. But it has its caveats too. The very components that help it go fast in a straight line hurt it in other metrics.

Ford has a Cobra Jet for that purpose. And it does it better. Beats the demon.

Where the demon wins is that you can reconfigure it for the street and it's legal can't do that with the Cobra Jet.

But the demon loses performance in its niche when its back in "street mode" and still has fairly middling capabilities outside of acceleration.

The GT500 however, will be at full potential all the time (plus the same benefits the demon gets can be had by the 500 with slicks, skinnies, a second tune, and seat removal (but I'm betting it doesn't need that). Acceleration and all the rest. Let's see how they stack up on street, track, AND strip once the venom is unleashed.

Kind of silly to be dogmatic about it just yet. Speculation and hypothesis is fun. But we can't be so sure about those things. There may yet be surprises.

"Venom kills Demons"

Well, he's certainly got us (and many other Mustang forums/FB pages) talking! It's a bold statement and, for me, as vague as that statement is, if the GT500 doesn't beat the Demon in at least one performance metric, Jim is going to have egg on his face. Especially as everyone knows the Demon's main bragging right is its 1/4 mile time, and that's what many will judge the GT500 on now.

That being said, I much prefer a more well rounded performance car, as we suspect the GT500 will be. Just as I'd rather have a Hellcat than a Demon.

I think there will be an R. Base weight starts at GT350 weight with added weight of a blower package and initial savings of a CF driveshaft and R model has CF Wheels and CC rotors to keep weight close to The GT350R or down around 3600. Might be wishing here but totally doable. Now if they go with aluminum doors, trunk and roof, maybe a totally loaded GT500R could actually be lighter.

BmacIL said:

Yeah but they know that the car is capable, therefore will require it. Really shortsighted.

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The added weight of the roll cage probably meant they couldn’t crack the 9s.

Maybe it just kills it in price :shrug:

Clink said:

Maybe it just kills it in price :shrug:

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Unfortunately probably not, even without markup Bs.

Thoughts on the venom being a 1/4 mile variant of the gt500?