UPR Catch Can

FraG · Nov 27, 2017

articrandom said:
So much good info here!

Now I'm questioning the catch can purchase. Should I just get an extended warranty and put the $200 towards the extended warranty from Ford?

[ame]

This is how mine looked as well, I realise a lot of that is water but really for $200-400 over the next 2-4 years of ownership it will definitely have a positive cumulative effect (in my view). I'm not a mechanic nor am I an engineer but when I see mechanics/engineers recommend it I don't question it. As I said above it may well be unicorn tears and there is zero need for it but I'll run with the herd on this one as it is not detrimental to add it but it does/may have a positive effect - again no brainer for me.

Marvinmadman · Nov 27, 2017

I'll post a video of my next drain from my UPR.

Juben · Nov 27, 2017

A catch can is a must-have on a boosted car for more reasons than carbon build-up, in my opinion.

For instance, let's look at the function on the PCV system. By design, it's going to recirculate all of that nasty junk caught in a catch can back through the engine. Now, if you're daily driving and not worrying about performance, then it probably won't mean much to you. However, if you're after performance, then it should matter because that nasty cauldron of oil, fuel, and water can dilute your fuel quality and cause issues like detonation. For that reason alone, I'd run one.

Also, there's the issue of the crankcase pressure with these engines. They produce a massive amount of it and a good catch can system, like the UPR, can help to ease that problem. Even some of the updated PCV cars will still have issues smoking due to this. And a catch can is one of the more simple solutions. That's why it's recommend to gut the factory PCV valve and run a catch can. If you've ever disassembled the PCV system and/or gutted it, you'd know what I'm talking about.

Some people don't want to run it. Some do. Some don't want to spend the money because it's not something to increase horsepower. Some will buy it because it's good insurance and does work for many purposes. In the end, do what makes you sleep good at night and what fits your budget. At the end of the day, that's all that matters.

Marvinmadman · Nov 27, 2017

That's from about 300 mixed driving miles

FraG · Nov 28, 2017

Marvinmadman said:
That's from about 300 mixed driving miles

300 miles only? Wow, took me about 2000 to get that with the JLT. Goes to show how much better the UPR system is (well not accounting to different conditions/mods)

Marvinmadman · Nov 28, 2017

Yes. 300 miles.

TorqueMan · Nov 28, 2017

Showing what you drain from your catch can isn't proof of anything except what everyone already knows: the inside of an internal combustion engine is dirty. Don't forget, you're only catching some of what's circulated through the PCV system in your catch can. The rest of your engine is far dirtier. Take a close look at the oil you drain out of your engine the next time you change it. There is more crap in it than you will ever get in your catch can. Why aren't we worried about those contaminants? Because you never see them; they're held in suspension in the oil until you change it--and they cause no harm assuming you follow the recommended oil change interval.

The cheap insurance argument is not simple logic, it's simply illogical. Insurance is a hedge against a known risk. The risk of not using a catch can has yet to be specified, much less quantified. How can you compute as "cheap" any amount of money to prevent an unspecified risk of unspecified value? This is especially true for those of you who intend to keep your car for less time than that required for the supposed deleterious effects of not using a catch can to manifest themselves. If you plan to sell/trade your car as soon as the warranty expires then you are buying insurance you'll never need.

Again, I'm not saying catch cans serve no purpose. If you own a direct injection engine prone to carbon buildup on the intake valves, then you probably need one. I remain unconvinced the 2.3L EB motor is a candidate.

TorqueMan · Nov 28, 2017

Juben said:
For instance, let's look at the function on the PCV system. By design, it's going to recirculate all of that nasty junk caught in a catch can back through the engine. Now, if you're daily driving and not worrying about performance, then it probably won't mean much to you. However, if you're after performance, then it should matter because that nasty cauldron of oil, fuel, and water can dilute your fuel quality and cause issues like detonation. For that reason alone, I'd run one.

Yes, the vapors that circulate through the PCV system displace some air as they are burned in the combustion chamber, so there is a case to be made for a catch can if you are trying to extract the last measure of performance from your engine. The question then becomes how much power do you lose in burning up crankcase vapors, and do you need that tiny percentage of power? I don't win anything if my car goes zero-to-sixty in 5.23 seconds with a catch can instead of 5.25 seconds without one (those numbers are purely hypothetical--I have no idea what the actual performance gains one might expect from the installation of a catch can, but I imagine they are vanishingly small).

Juben said:
Also, there's the issue of the crankcase pressure with these engines. They produce a massive amount of it and a good catch can system, like the UPR, can help to ease that problem. Even some of the updated PCV cars will still have issues smoking due to this. And a catch can is one of the more simple solutions. That's why it's recommend to gut the factory PCV valve and run a catch can. If you've ever disassembled the PCV system and/or gutted it, you'd know what I'm talking about.

Are you talking about a stock engine, or a modded/tuned engine running higher-than-stock boost? The stock PCV system is designed to work under specified conditions; it may very well be inadequate for engines modified to produce more boost pressure than stock. Beyond the early cars, I've not heard of issues with excessive smoking on stock EB Mustangs. Have you?

That said, my argument remains that a catch can to prevent carbon buildup on the intake valves makes little sense as there is no evidence that the 2.3L EB motor is prone to carbon buildup on its intake valves. You've been around here for a long time. Do you remember anyone reporting this problem?

Ebm · Nov 28, 2017

.

TorqueMan said:
Showing what you drain from your catch can isn't proof of anything except what everyone already knows: the inside of an internal combustion engine is dirty. Don't forget, you're only catching some of what's circulated through the PCV system in your catch can. The rest of your engine is far dirtier. Take a close look at the oil you drain out of your engine the next time you change it. There is more crap in it than you will ever get in your catch can. Why aren't we worried about those contaminants? Because you never see them; they're held in suspension in the oil until you change it--and they cause no harm assuming you follow the recommended oil change interval.

The cheap insurance argument is not simple logic, it's simply illogical. Insurance is a hedge against a known risk. The risk of not using a catch can has yet to be specified, much less quantified. How can you compute as "cheap" any amount of money to prevent an unspecified risk of unspecified value? This is especially true for those of you who intend to keep your car for less time than that required for the supposed deleterious effects of not using a catch can to manifest themselves. If you plan to sell/trade your car as soon as the warranty expires then you are buying insurance you'll never need.

Again, I'm not saying catch cans serve no purpose. If you own a direct injection engine prone to carbon buildup on the intake valves, then you probably need one. I remain unconvinced the 2.3L EB motor is a candidate.

My thoughts exactly. What the heck does a picture of what's in your catch can have to do with carbon deposits? Show me some proof that what's in your catch can is harmful to the engine. I've been waiting for proof for over a year now. Seriously, this is probably the 15th or 20th thread about catch cans on here.

ctandc72 · Nov 28, 2017

Love discussions like this.

The PCV system is an emissions control system...pure and simple. Crankcase ventilation was present and accounted for - BEFORE the EPA got involved in the 70's...but recirculating that vapor / oil mixture and reintroducing it to the combustion chamber is an emissions control design.

Auto manufacturers have been under the gun to meet rising (and many times ridiculous) emissions standards for years. All of these systems are designed to cut emissions - NOT make a car perform better or even last longer.

The one thing I have NOT seen mentioned here is the different ways the same vehicle is driven. Do you make a lot of short trips? Lots of stop and go? This type of driving is harder on an engine. Mainly because many contaminants (a given in an internal combustion engine) that are trapped in the oil cannot burn off and these are then reintroduced into the combustion process.

But hell, I'm easy. Your car, your money, your choice.

TorqueMan · Nov 28, 2017

ctandc72 said:
The one thing I have NOT seen mentioned here is the different ways the same vehicle is driven. Do you make a lot of short trips? Lots of stop and go? This type of driving is harder on an engine. Mainly because many contaminants (a given in an internal combustion engine) that are trapped in the oil cannot burn off and these are then reintroduced into the combustion process.

The "intelligent" oil life monitor in your car takes into account driving modes, so, theoretically, if you follow its recommendations you will replace the oil before degradation significant enough to cause engine damage occurs.

The primary problem you are trying to avoid with oil is oxidation--the increase of oxygen molecules in the oil. Oxidation causes two big problems: 1) It encourages oil molecules to clump and join together--which is one of the reasons used oil is generally thicker and darker--and 2) a by-product of oxidation is the formation of acids, which can lead to corrosion of critical internal engine parts. Oxidation is a good reason to use a synthetic oil. Synthetic oils stand up to heat far better than dino oils, and heat causes oil oxidation more rapidly than any other factor.

Short trips are also bad, and also because of heat. Not too much heat, however, but too little; the oil doesn't attain operating temp for long enough to boil off the water that accumulates inside the engine due to condensation. The more water in the oil, the faster oxidation occurs. This is the primary reason I don't advocate for an oil cooler on daily drivers, especially if the oil cooler doesn't incorporate a thermostat and/or you don't know what temp the thermostat opens.

If you keep your engine's sump full of oil that meets or exceeds Ford's spec and change it when the oil-life monitor tells you to, then the oil in your car should never degrade enough to be an issue.

articrandom · Nov 28, 2017

I ended up getting a brand new the UPR dual catch can for $200. Better be safe than sorry and I really want to keep this car for the next 3 years plus I am not sure how it was driven before so I just thought I would jump in and get it. It can only do more good than bad anyway.

Thank you everyone for your input!

ctandc72 · Nov 28, 2017

TorqueMan said:
The "intelligent" oil life monitor in your car takes into account driving modes, so, theoretically, if you follow its recommendations you will replace the oil before degradation significant enough to cause engine damage occurs.

The primary problem you are trying to avoid with oil is oxidation--the increase of oxygen molecules in the oil. Oxidation causes two big problems: 1) It encourages oil molecules to clump and join together--which is one of the reasons used oil is generally thicker and darker--and 2) a by-product of oxidation is the formation of acids, which can lead to corrosion of critical internal engine parts. Oxidation is a good reason to use a synthetic oil. Synthetic oils stand up to heat far better than dino oils, and heat causes oil oxidation more rapidly than any other factor.

Short trips are also bad, and also because of heat. Not too much heat, however, but too little; the oil doesn't attain operating temp for long enough to boil off the water that accumulates inside the engine due to condensation. The more water in the oil, the faster oxidation occurs. This is the primary reason I don't advocate for an oil cooler on daily drivers, especially if the oil cooler doesn't incorporate a thermostat and/or you don't know what temp the thermostat opens.

If you keep your engine's sump full of oil that meets or exceeds Ford's spec and change it when the oil-life monitor tells you to, then the oil in your car should never degrade enough to be an issue.

I was mentioning the oil - and the contaminants it contains - as it pertains to the PCV system and being reintroduced into the combustion chamber. I won't comment on the "Intelligent Oil Life Monitor" - Ford's or any other manufacturer. I've seen the actual code on another manufacturer's oil life monitor and it isn't black magic or rocket science. It's another example of auto manufacturers dealing the with lowest common denominator as it pertains to the people who buy / drive their vehicles.

I'll stick to my oil change schedule I've used since synthetic oil became affordable. I've run 3 different vehicles from 3 different manufacturers well over 200K miles on it.

TorqueMan · Nov 28, 2017

Ebm said:
Seriously, this is probably the 15th or 20th thread about catch cans on here.

And still no evidence of carbon deposits? Wow...

OlTexastang · Nov 28, 2017

articrandom said:
I ended up getting a brand new the UPR dual catch can for $200. Better be safe than sorry and I really want to keep this car for the next 3 years plus I am not sure how it was driven before so I just thought I would jump in and get it. It can only do more good than bad anyway.

Thank you everyone for your input!

Can't believe you managed to sort thru all this and still bought one lol. Love how a simple question turns into a battle of knowledge or lack of. Adding a safeguard isn't always a bad thing and until several of these cars get some mileage on them and we see what the outcome is we will either be happy we added one or we will have put a couple hundred into the car for no reason. I know I've wasted money before so no big deal. Enjoy your ride.

UPR Catch Can

FraG

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Marvinmadman

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Juben

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Marvinmadman

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FraG

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Marvinmadman

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TorqueMan

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TorqueMan

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Ebm

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ctandc72

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TorqueMan

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articrandom

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ctandc72

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TorqueMan

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OlTexastang

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