Koons Ford (and other dealers posting prices well below MSRP)?

Jdenkevitz · May 24, 2018

5.Oh Crush said:
Late on commenting, but let me break it down to you and others how this 125% game of math works. They consider 100% of KBB to be the bottom tier of trade in value. If your car is in excellent condition and low miles, you will get more. They are doing the math for you. That up to 125% is based on your cars condition and mileage starting from the bottom. They are not saying if KBB says your excellent car is worth 40K, they will give you up to 50K. They will never give a penny over the market.

Koons pulls the destination fee from the WOW pricing because it gets people to contact or go see them. Many dealers do this with 'internet specials'. Its disingenuous however it works. It drives customers to them. That's the name of the game.

I purchased my 16 GT with PP from them. I comparison shopped practically every other dealer in Maryland and Northern VA against their pricing and no one came close.

I was currently in a 16 Ecoboost, and their trade in value was terrible on it. So I told them I would sell it privately first. Trading in is not necessarily a prudent move by the consumer. Its another point of leverage they use to extract additional profit. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't understand why so many people capitulate this aspect.

Carmax, Vroom, and Beepi all offered me significantly more (as in 3 grand or so) on my EB.

My advice: Sell your car privately, then go deal.
When shopping, play dealers against one another. Call around and ask if they can match certain pricing OTD. Email several dealers at the same time and ask for their best pricing on a specific model/feature set. Explain whoever offers the lowest deal, will get the sale.

Explain that if you agree on a price, show up and there are extra fees, you will immediately walk without hesitation. Stress this point.

"Processing" fees are bullshit. You can get them to drop them.

5.Oh Crush · May 24, 2018

Jdenkevitz said:
Koons pulls the destination fee from the WOW pricing because it gets people to contact or go see them. Many dealers do this with 'internet specials'. Its disingenuous however it works. It drives customers to them. That's the name of the game.

I purchased my 16 GT with PP from them. I comparison shopped practically every other dealer in Maryland and Northern VA against their pricing and no one came close.

I was currently in a 16 Ecoboost, and their trade in value was terrible on it. So I told them I would sell it privately first. Trading in is not necessarily a prudent move by the consumer. Its another point of leverage they use to extract additional profit. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't understand why so many people capitulate this aspect.

Carmax, Vroom, and Beepi all offered me significantly more (as in 3 grand or so) on my EB.

My advice: Sell your car privately, then go deal.
When shopping, play dealers against one another. Call around and ask if they can match certain pricing OTD. Email several dealers at the same time and ask for their best pricing on a specific model/feature set. Explain whoever offers the lowest deal, will get the sale.

Explain that if you agree on a price, show up and there are extra fees, you will immediately walk without hesitation. Stress this point.

"Processing" fees are bullshit. You can get them to drop them.

Very true. I have got some good prices from Koons. Maybe the best prices even after add backs. They do lowball on trade in. On my Focus ST, I didn't trade in and played Koons and Jerry's back and forth. I quit with Koons going 100 better because Jerry's has two years and inspections for life. Jerry's has (mostly) been good to me after 4 cars from them. They have treated my GT350 very well.

Phils15GT · May 24, 2018

Car price 30370, 900 destination, 699 doc, 350 reg fee.

With tax OTD is $34100 for base auto.

FISHTAIL · May 24, 2018

5.Oh Crush said:
Very true. I have got some good prices from Koons. Maybe the best prices even after add backs. They do lowball on trade in. On my Focus ST, I didn't trade in and played Koons and Jerry's back and forth. I quit with Koons going 100 better because Jerry's has two years and inspections for life. Jerry's has (mostly) been good to me after 4 cars from them. They have treated my GT350 very well.

I've gotten good pricing from Koons before too. Also Waldorf and Sheehy. In fact, I've gotten my last 3 vehicles from one of each. I got my 13 Focus ST from Waldorf, who beat out Koons on pricing.

I got my 16GT from Koons who beat out everyone, and my 18GT from Sheehy who did the same. Sheehy also crushed everyones trade in eval except for Waldorf, who matched it, but couldn't find me a comparably equipped car.

Of the 3 of them, my best sales experience was Sheehy. Though their finance guy was a little annoying, but wasn't bad enough to sour my overall experience.

Emt1581 · May 28, 2018

antimatr said:
I've noticed this forum seemed rather quiet with regards to this particular topic.

While I was browsing the web a couple of weeks ago, I stumbled onto cargurus.com and noticed a large number of '18 GTs and GT Premiums at prices well below MSRP.

As you'd probably figured out by the thread title, the prices that really caught my eye were from Koons Ford Falls Church/Sterling/Baltimore.

After three years of love/hate ownership of my '15 Challenger Scat Pack, and upon seeing the WOW pricing at Koons, the idea of getting rid of said Challenger and replacing it with an '18 GT is now firmly implanted into my cranium.

Suffice to say, I'm also a rather strict adherent to 'if it's too good to be true...', but I couldn't simply ignore the pricing, especially on one particular GT Premium that was sitting at Falls Church (didn't have the exact options I wanted, but at ~$7k off a $44k sticker and $2k less than what a base GT/PP stickers at I'm not exactly going to say no...) .

So...on Wednesday, I decided to ring up Koons in Falls Church. I'll just say I was less than impressed with that particular experience.

I've also pored over some of the threads regarding Koons, and read of customers getting 'average' deals (dealer invoice + destinations + usual 'fees' + whatever rebates apply during a particular timeframe). I've also read at least one post reporting customers getting lowballed on their trade-ins. It also seems they're not entirely upfront when it comes to details on pricing (I believe the WOW price doesn't include destination, for instance)...

On the other hand, I've seen multiple posters apparently getting very good deals and service (one that stands out is one particular gentleman ordering his from out-of-state and getting his GT for around $6k off). I'm also getting the distinct impression that Koons Sterling and Baltimore seem to have more positive experiences overall than Falls Church...

I've never purchased a car out-of-state, but as I stated earlier above, there's no way I can pass up such an offer if it turns out to be true; at the same time, I can't help but be very skeptical regarding these prices. I'm also not interested in making a 13-hour, ~900 mile drive only to get screwed over on one or more aspects with regards to a purchase, or be presented with an 'average' deal.

I was hoping anyone here could give me some recent experiences/feedback regarding these dealerships, or if I'd be better off with somewhere closer to home (Central FL).

If you search my screen name I'm sure you'll see a more detailed account of my experience buying from Koons. However, I'll share it in a nutshell.

Koons' WOW! price is basically a foot in the door technique at it's best. It's complete and utter bullshit that just catches your eye initially. It also eats up a bunch of the more standard rebates/discounts that would apply to pretty much anyone at any dealership.

What I did was test drove a GT up here and then told the dealer I'd give him first crack at beating the lowest OTD price I could find in my search. Well I did that. He couldn't touch it even remotely. So then I kept an eye on the specific car I was looking for (New GT, PP, Magnetic, coupe)...black ones in that config. were plentiful at tons of dealers but not Magnetic.

I actually watched over the course of several months and found that their pricing changed almost daily on the same car/VIN. It was basically a game. So I kept watching all the Koons' dealers with that car and when I saw the price go as low as I'd seen I called up and expressed interest. Two or three calls later I had them put it on hold, took care of what little bargaining I could squeeze in, and had an OTD price (plus factory all-weather matts) secured. They are the cheapest dealer I found by a long shot, at least at the time and in the config. I wanted. So there's not really much bargaining they do aside from discounts/incentives you may qualify for. I snuck in a few hundred off the price because the dealer was dumb enough to agree to something he couldn't provide...a full size spare PP wheel/tire.

The following week we drove down, took it for a test drive (and got lost), then looked it over, signed the paperwork (with a royal dickhead of a finance guy!!) and drove it home. While I thought I was meticulous in looking it over I missed something VERY important...the car had no owners manual. Well the original dealer (Ricky Pyle) couldn't be bothered and actually never returned any calls asking for it. But another dealer there ended up sending me one.

So my advice when dealing with Koons is know your shit! Know exactly what you want, the OTD price you are willing to pay, and when you go to pick up your car make sure it's got everything and that nothing is damaged because once you leave the lot, you could have the same experience I did.

Feel free to PM me any questions. And good luck!

gbgreen · Jun 7, 2018

Medsport said:
A coupe quick questions guys. I was searching on koons a couple years ago when I was looking at a new mustang and now am looking at challengers. Their wow prices are actually a little better on them too (9-10k off compared to 7-8). How do they do with trade in values? I'd probably be lucky to get what I owe on my 16gt since I haven't had it 2 years yet, but I noticed that they advertised up to 125% off kbb. Also, will they trade for other cars if they don't have exactly what you are looking for or do you have to wait until they get one in? I can't seem to find any octane red or green scat packs, at least in auto and they don't have many with the forged wheel option either. I did find a T/A in granite that looked pretty good, although it would most likely be pushing the budget unless the trade, interest rate and wow price was pretty accurate since it would be about a 500 mile trip for me.

Well, I can answer one question. While I had no confusion about the WOW price and what it entailed (it was spelled out at the bottom of the Web page for the details of any given car), their trade-in value was 2,000-2500 lower than other dealers for the same car. So I would say that Koons is most advantageous to those that are buying without having a trade-in.

5.Oh Crush · Jun 7, 2018

gbgreen said:
Well, I can answer one question. While I had no confusion about the WOW price and what it entailed (it was spelled out at the bottom of the Web page for the details of any given car), their trade-in value was 2,000-2500 lower than other dealers for the same car. So I would say that Koons is most advantageous to those that are buying without having a trade-in.

Yes, I agree. Best to sell your car first if it’s an off brand. I got some decent luck with my 5.0 trade in. You will never get over 100%. The 125% is all marketing. The house always wins. Check your KBB and give them a shot.

5.Oh Crush · Jun 7, 2018

Also, I just saw an octane red TA on dulles dodge for 9k off. Around 40k. Mustang is best all around though.

likeaboss · Jun 7, 2018

Of all the Koons locations the Baltimore store is the best one and I've bought quite a few cars from them. I believe they sold pretty much all their Raptors and Focus RS allocations at MSRP or less. They did add ADM to the GT350/GT350R, but then dropped the ADM last year on the non-R and even went blow MSRP on some.

gbgreen · Jun 7, 2018

5.Oh Crush said:
Yes, I agree. Best to sell your car first if it’s an off brand. I got some decent luck with my 5.0 trade in. You will never get over 100%. The 125% is all marketing. The house always wins. Check your KBB and give them a shot.

Well, not just off brands. The offer for my immaculate 2016 Mustang V6 coupe was well below what KBB, Edmunds, Carmax, or any other dealer offered (but the other dealers had a higher price for the GT I was looking for; they all have to make their profit some way, after all...)

Emt1581 · Jun 9, 2018

gbgreen said:
Well, not just off brands. The offer for my immaculate 2016 Mustang V6 coupe was well below what KBB, Edmunds, Carmax, or any other dealer offered (but the other dealers had a higher price for the GT I was looking for; they all have to make their profit some way, after all...)

Black book price...not Blue book.

5.Oh Crush · Jun 15, 2018

Yeah. Always verify. Most salesman don’t know squat.

gbgreen · Jun 15, 2018

Emt1581 said:
Black book price...not Blue book.

Hmm. I thought that the Dealer Trade-in price that you get on KBB.com (you get 4 prices: Instant Cash Offer, Dealer Trade-in, Private Party, and Donate Your Car), was the same as the Black Book price.

Just FYI, I literally just got home an hour ago from a dealer after getting a price on a 2019 PPL2, and when the salesman mentioned that he was typing info in on my trade-in (saying that they use a few systems to evaluate trade-ins), I asked if they use Kelly Black Book (explicitly because of your post). He said "Kelly Blue Book". I again asked, "Not Black Book? Blue Book?". He said "Yes".

I'm not trying to argue with you here; just giving my understanding, and what happened at the dealer a couple hours ago. Caveat emptor.

Troublemaker427 · Jun 19, 2018

I bought my 2018 Ruby Red GT PP1 Auto from Koons in Baltimore. I could not have been treated any better. Their price blew all other local dealers out of the water and they used my X-plan pin to cut down on the associated fees.

Lost · Jun 19, 2018

Troublemaker427 said:
I bought my 2018 Ruby Red GT PP1 Auto from Koons in Baltimore. I could not have been treated any better. Their price blew all other local dealers out of the water and they used my X-plan pin to cut down on the associated fees.

What is the xplan pin?

Koons Ford (and other dealers posting prices well below MSRP)?

Jdenkevitz

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5.Oh Crush

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Phils15GT

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FISHTAIL

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Emt1581

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gbgreen

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5.Oh Crush

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5.Oh Crush

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likeaboss

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gbgreen

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Emt1581

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5.Oh Crush

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gbgreen

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Troublemaker427

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Lost

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