Whipple car runs bad - tune issues

Racerbox77 · Jun 2, 2018

HextallS550 said:
Before you do that ask each of those shops if they are writing calibrations with the stock N/A operating system or Ford's SC OS. I use the Whipple Stage 2 cal with adjustments made by me via HP Tuners. Since fixing the TB magnet issue and adjusting for the 1050x injectors I have 0 issues except a rich mixture up top that I will fix on the dyno during July shutdown. If you get a copy of a Whipple file for use with HP Tuners or nGauge software from someone, make sure it is the same year as your car.

Can you school me please?

dev1360 · Jun 2, 2018

jgedde said:
Well, my hesitation and surging is back... I have been datalogging for a couple of weeks and pinpointed it to something going on with timing.

Below is a pic showing a plot of spark advance and KR during a 5th gear, half throttle run-up from 2000-3000 RPM. As can be seen the timing is jumping back and forth about 4 degrees. Timing is being added smoothly as illustrated by the KR being negative as much as 2.5 degrees.

This only happens part throttle. Full throttle the timing is steady.

What could cause this apart from the tune?

John

The timing changes are normal. The issue you are describing is IPC Wheel Torque Errors caused by incorrect throttle body data or torque table data. Causes the TB to open and close, oscillate, if you will, because of the car trying to match commanded/available/inferred torque calculations.

HextallS550 · Jun 2, 2018

Racerbox77 said:
Can you school me please?

2017 cars need to adjust the magnet that is on the end of the throttle body shaft to account for changes in the Ford TB cover electronics.

Roh92cp · Jun 2, 2018

dev1360 said:
The timing changes are normal. The issue you are describing is IPC Wheel Torque Errors caused by incorrect throttle body data or torque table data. Causes the TB to open and close, oscillate, if you will, because of the car trying to match commanded/available/inferred torque calculations.

HextallS550 said:
2017 cars need to adjust the magnet that is on the end of the throttle body shaft to account for changes in the Ford TB cover electronics.

Is this incorrect throttle body data caused by a mechanical issue with it, like the magnet being incorrectly positioned. Is there a way to check the throttle body and see if it's got an issue?

I've on more than one occasion pushed the throttle body open when the elbow was off to look inside, could this cause malfunction?

HextallS550 · Jun 2, 2018

On a 2015 you shouldn't have an issue. Manually opening the TB blade shouldn't cause any issues. Follow the Whipple procedure to see if your magnet needs to be adjusted.

https://whipplesuperchargers.com/index.php?dispatch=attachments.getfile&attachment_id=188

jgedde · Jun 2, 2018

dev1360 said:
The timing changes are normal. The issue you are describing is IPC Wheel Torque Errors caused by incorrect throttle body data or torque table data. Causes the TB to open and close, oscillate, if you will, because of the car trying to match commanded/available/inferred torque calculations.

Sounds like you may be on to something. Is this TB or tune related? I am working with Lund now for a tune that works...

John

HextallS550 · Jun 2, 2018

Whipple calibrations don't typically have wheel torque errors because the TB data in the cal is correct.

JCSIX13 · Jun 17, 2018

giving up on whipple - their tech support is just not there

going with lund - hope this works better

keltymd · Jun 17, 2018

JCSIX13 said:
giving up on whipple - their tech support is just not there

going with lund - hope this works better

Keep us updated

Platinum_5.0 · Jun 19, 2018

Wish I could have just edited the Whipple cal. On my 2nd tune since the whipple and still issues. No other tune so far started and idled like the whipple calibration. Now my car surges with the A/C turned on and 3 revisions later and can't fix it. I'm working with a well known tuner

stang17 · Jun 19, 2018

Platinum_5.0 said:
Wish I could have just edited the Whipple cal. On my 2nd tune since the whipple and still issues. No other tune so far started and idled like the whipple calibration. Now my car surges with the A/C turned on and 3 revisions later and can't fix it. I'm working with a well known tuner ��

I had evans tuning in mount bethel PA use HP tuners to tweak the Whipple tune. I've been very happy with it. If you want to give it a try PM your email and I'll send it your way.

sigintel · Jun 19, 2018

stang17 said:
I had evans tuning in mount bethel PA use HP tuners to tweak the Whipple tune. I've been very happy with it. If you want to give it a try PM your email and I'll send it your way.

Hell yea

jgedde · Jun 21, 2018

keltymd said:
Keep us updated

I just finished with Lund. I'm going back to the Whipple tune and will tweak using HP Tuners.

What Alex at Lund came up with fixes the Whipple tune issues and runs like a beast at WOT. But the Lund tune adds a whole set of new issues: LT trims -16 to -18%, bad surging/bucking at 3000 RPM, and will not run any of the I/M Monitor tests I need for emissions inspection. But, apart from the bucking, the part throttle driveability is better.

They are very inflexible about fixing this almost to the point of arrogance. I state my issues with the tune and it's like they only read the first line and spit off a reply that doesn't address my issues at all. As far as being a custom tune, they just tweak something that worked on other cars.

This is totally different than my first experience with Lund when my car was NA. Their NA flex fuel tune was excellent!

superman07 · Jun 21, 2018

"They are very inflexible about fixing this almost to the point of arrogance. I state my issues with the tune and it's like they only read the first line and spit off a reply that doesn't address my issues at all. As far as being a custom tune, they just tweak something that worked on other cars."

Precisely my issue with Lund. Despite very detailed questions and logs that had pretty clear data suggesting my concerns, not a lot of support.

Platinum_5.0 · Jun 21, 2018

jgedde said:
I just finished with Lund. I'm going back to the Whipple tune and will tweak using HP Tuners.

What Alex at Lund came up with fixes the Whipple tune issues and runs like a beast at WOT. But the Lund tune adds a whole set of new issues: LT trims -16 to -18%, bad surging/bucking at 3000 RPM, and will not run any of the I/M Monitor tests I need for emissions inspection. But, apart from the bucking, the part throttle driveability is better.

They are very inflexible about fixing this almost to the point of arrogance. I state my issues with the tune and it's like they only read the first line and spit off a reply that doesn't address my issues at all. As far as being a custom tune, they just tweak something that worked on other cars.

This is totally different than my first experience with Lund when my car was NA. Their NA flex fuel tune was excellent!

Sorry about your experiences man. I was looking into a Lund tune to help correct some of my Whipple issues and now I feel discouraged. Some people have things just work out great for them and guys like me and you suffer. I'm on my 3rd tune and still issues. Each tune I've had, had a different issue from the last.:(

Whipple car runs bad - tune issues

Racerbox77

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dev1360

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HextallS550

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Roh92cp

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HextallS550

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jgedde

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HextallS550

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JCSIX13

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keltymd

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Platinum_5.0

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stang17

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sigintel

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jgedde

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superman07

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Platinum_5.0

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